Need some Input

[93formulalt1]

Alright, I need you guys to be the voice of reason here. I'm trying to figure out what course of action to take here, and I'm losing my mind.

First of all, the situation: I bought my '94 Formula in August of 2012 for a song. Paid $1800 for it, it ran rough, but it was a rare color (that I have fallen in love with), body was solid, very little rust, and I knew I could get it going again. So I drove it home, parked it, and worked on it as I could afford parts. Money was tight, then my hours got cut at work, so it got parked in October, where it was only started up to keep the battery charged up maybe once or twice a month. Fast forward a bit. I started making more money at work, promoted to a salaried position, so money isn't as much of a concern (I'm still not wealthy, but I get by, and I have several hundred $$$ at the end of the month to play with).

The car is running 100X better than it did on the day I bought it. Problem now, the 1-2 Synchro is failing, so I know I'm going to need a rebuild in the near future. The clutch is going bad, it needs tires, a couple sensors, and I still need to replace the Opti again (this would be #5 since I bought the car). The car runs, and drives, pretty good, makes decent power, but still isn't 100% yet. There is some rust bubbling on the driver's rear quarter panel and some surface rust beneath the battery tray and under the driver's floor pan, paint flaking off on the hatch and quarter, and the clear coat on the mirrors is gone, in addition to a couple really deep scratches on the passenger door and rocker panel. The car looks fair from 20-30 feet, but it definitely needs some paint work.

I love this car. It's exactly what I want, I have fallen in love with the color (Purple Pearl Metallic), it's got leather interior, LT1/T56, T-Tops, a few bolt-ons (K&N CAI, BBK Headers, Magnaflow Cat-Back, Test Pipe), and it drives straight.

It needs a lot of work yet though. I need to repair the rust, get the paint work done, it's going to need a trans rebuild, new clutch, the shocks/struts and coils are all stock units with 163k miles, so they will need replacement as well. Brakes are toast, was hoping to do the C5 Brake upgrade in the front, and new pads/rotors in the back (or upgrade to LS1 rear brakes). Needs tires, rims need painted (or replaced), and it could likely benefit from new suspension bushings throughout.


Basically, the car is a project. It runs/drives, and quite well, at that, but it's still got a long way to go before it's where I want it. I would like to think that I can make this happen, but add the things I want to do to the car to improve upon the stock performance/handling/etc. to what it's going to take to get it up to par, and I'm not so sure it's worth the time/money. I want to modify the car, not spend countless hours and thousands of dollars fixing the things that 163,000 miles and 19 years have done their damage to.

Therein lies my dilemma. If I sell the car, I will likely begin looking at other powertrains (LS1), different generations, or even at abandoning the F-Body platform completely. I'm just looking for options at this point. I don't want to park the car for an extended period of time, because let's face it, it's just not as much fun driving a 170hp Malibu as it is driving an LT1 F-Body.

Should I put it up to see what kind of price I could get selling it as-is? I have a parts car also, and a pile of aftermarket parts, I'm guessing that, if I sold EVERYTHING LT1/F-Body related that I have, I could probably clear about $5,500-$6,000. This would potentially put me that much closer to a VERY clean LT1 car, or into a bone-stock, higher mileage LS1 car. My problem is, I have been into F-Bodies since 2005, and it's taken 7 years to finally make things work out so I could get into a car I really like. I'm afraid that if I let this one go, I'll be starting over, and I don't want to settle for something that's not exactly what I want, because I don't quite have enough money. . .


Another option, as much as I hate to admit it, is to sell the Formula, pay off the Malibu, bank the rest (I owe about $4500 on the Malibu still), and start putting what I would be paying for full coverage insurance and the car payment into my savings account. In 2-3 years, there should be enough there (if I stick with it), to pay cash for a really nice car.




Arrgh. I'm going to cut myself off here, I've already written a book. Share your thoughts, opinions, advice, it's all appreciated. Honesty is preferred, but given my current situation, please be gentle. lol

[firebird_1995]

Does it run and drive now? Why is it on the 5th opti?

And continuing our conversation from pm, you should try putting your maf on your friends car to see if the symptoms followed the sensor. That would rule out a wiring issue with yours

[93formulalt1]

I swapped the MAF from my car onto another car, readings were the same as they are on mine. Consistently read 2-3gps higher than it should. Didn't test drive it, but the readings being the same "sealed the deal" for me.

Car does run and drive, I've had some issues with getting Opti's with a manufacturing defect, they are somehow reading a high res pulse and no low res pulse. Doesn't seem odd, until you consider that this is happening on EVERY opti from that manufacturer, and all while the engine is off.

Plugged in my stock opti, no issues. Plugged in a reman unit, no issues. Only that brand. I think they have some quality control issues that need worked out.


Car runs great, aside from the low RPM hesitation and consistent grinding when shifting into 2nd (double clutching and driving carefully are working alright, but I don't want to try my luck.)

The Formula is my 2nd car, I can take it back home to my Mom's place and park it for as long as I need to, I have a garage there, so if I do pull the trans to rebuild, I'll either do it in the garage, or down in the basement workshop. I have a 2005 Malibu LS that I bought about a year and a half ago as a daily, and while it also needs some maintenance, it's running and driving, and I would have no problems driving it until I get the 'bird straightened out.

I'm just trying to decide if a 20 year old, 163k mile LT1 car is really worth all the work it's going to take to get it to the level I want it to be at. If I pull the trans, why not pull the engine and give it a refresh too? New rods, bearings, gaskets, rings, etc., just to make sure the bottom end will hold up if I decide to do heads/cam down the road. Other option, I have a '93 parts car, needs heads, I could pull it, rebuild the short block, clean it all up, and have Lloyd work his magic on a pair of stock heads, grind me a cam, and install it next spring? Or pull it, clean it up, install it, and rebuild the stock motor from the '94. I know I have options, but I'm at the point where if I sell it now, I'm not losing money. If I go any further, the chances of getting out of it what I've put into it are much lower.

I've been looking at older Corvettes, newer Trans Am/Formula's, Subaru WRX's, Datsun 240/260/280Z's, Nissan 350Z's, Audi S4's, BMW 3-series', all kinds of cars that I would not mind driving. Heck, I've even considered selling the Formula and all my parts off, selling the parts car, paying off the Malibu and selling it, and buying another Jeep Wrangler, since I can have fun with it year round. I LOVE F-Bodies though, and I know that if I get out of the game now, I'll just find myself wishing I hadn't in a couple years.


For what it's worth, the Formula has been daily driven for about 2 months now, since I first got the ignition issues taken care of. It runs good, only a couple minor issues left to iron out, but the transmission is not up to the task, and I don't want to keep driving it if it's going to cause problems later on. I have convinced myself that a T56 rebuild is a project I can handle, so buying parts is next on my list. I need shocks and struts for the Malibu first, since the shocks on the car are SHOT. Rebuild parts should only cost me about $600-$800 for some minor upgrades. Replace the clutch, and I believe I could have a pretty solid driveline. I'm just trying to decide if it's worth it.

[1sickta]

I'll answer your question they way I would handle it. I'd wouldn't borrow money for a toy. It's a losing battle trying to build a car on credit. Paying off the daily makes a lot more sense and once it's paid off and if your in love with the formula build on it when the money is there.

[firebird_1995]

I may have misunderstood you earlier about the maf. You are saying that your maf on his car showed 2 grams per second more than when it was on your car? If so there are too many variables to form a conclusion. Even with identical mods if his engine had less mileage and was more efficient at idle that would be enough to skew the results.

[93formulalt1]

I may have misunderstood you earlier about the maf. You are saying that your maf on his car showed 2 grams per second more than when it was on your car? If so there are too many variables to form a conclusion. Even with identical mods if his engine had less mileage and was more efficient at idle that would be enough to skew the results.

No, my MAF reads between 9-10gps at idle. It's supposed to read between 4-7gps at idle. Swapped the MAF onto another car, still reads 9-10gps at idle. Known good MAF on my car reads between 6-7gps at idle. I know the MAF is bad.

[93formulalt1]

I'll answer your question they way I would handle it. I'd wouldn't borrow money for a toy. It's a losing battle trying to build a car on credit. Paying off the daily makes a lot more sense and once it's paid off and if your in love with the formula build on it when the money is there.

I'm not borrowing money for the toy, toy's paid for. Have a car payment for the daily, haven't missed any payments/made late payments on it since I've owned it. Should be paid off this year, if all goes well. Since the promotion at work, I've been paying extra on it to get it paid off faster.

I also have no intentions of using credit to build the car, it's all going to be paid for with cash. I only have one credit card with a very low limit, only use it for gas, and it's paid off every month. I'm actively trying to build my credit, I don't plan to let the desire to have a bad *** car destroy everything I've worked so hard to accomplish over the last 2 years.

[93formulalt1]

Just to update you guys, I've made my decision. In 1993 (20 years ago), my Dad bought a 1970 Monte Carlo. This car started out as a $500 "daily beater", and eventually became a full-on restoration project. In 2010, my Dad passed away, and the car became Mom's. There was some disagreement about what should be done with the car, as my sisters both wanted to "inherit" the vehicle, although Dad and I were the ones who did the bulk of the labor in turning it into what it is now.

Well, after 3 years of sitting in the garage, untouched, dormant, I re-opened "negotiations" with my Mom, and was able to get my sisters to agree with me. After calming down, and thinking things through, they came to the agreement that they didn't "want" the car to be theirs, they just didn't want "Dad's Car" to ever leave the family. I made Mom an offer-Far less than she could sell the car for in the open market, but a fair price that she suggested-and we made the agreement.

So, I'm selling all of my F-Body, LT1, and other miscellaneous parts that are sitting around. My '94 Formula is for sale, my '93 Formula Parts Car is for sale, all of my aftermarket parts are listed, and I'm cleaning out. The reason is simple: While I love Firebirds, and F-Bodies in general, my first real introduction to cars was the '70 Monte that has been in the garage since I was young. I learned TONS from turning wrenches with Dad. In my Sophomore year of High School, I spent my Friday and Saturday nights, not out looking for parties, women, drugs, or alcohol, but in helping Dad install the latest suspension parts, pulling the transmission for a rebuild, tuning the carb, cleaning it, sanding, painting, etc. I spent the greater part of my childhood learning how the engine worked, what the symptoms of a failing starter were, how to "limp" a car home after a trans failure, basic maintenance.

I love this car, and while I do enjoy the freedom of starting up the Formula, pulling the tops out, and cruising Lakeshore Drive for no other reason than "I'm bored", the Monte Carlo is a much more special experience, since every turn of the key reminds me of the years spent learning the hobby, and becoming closer with my Dad. Now that he's gone, this is "the torch", and now, after years of struggling to convince Mom not to sell it, it's finally being passed on to me. Sure, I'm paying for it, but the price is MORE than fair, it's a downright steal, since I'm getting the "Family Discount."

Details:
1970 Monte Carlo-Originally a 350/350 car, now a 454/TH400. Originally from Texas, bought at auction by a family friend who ran a towing co./junkyard.

Engine:
454 BBC 4 Bolt Main-Bored .060" over to 468-Rebuilt 125 miles ago (est., probably less than that.)
12.5:1 CR
Comp Cam (unsure of specs, need to read the cam card again when I go home next)
Offenhauser intake manifold, closed-chamber heads, Hooker headers, TD's through Flowmaster 40's, 3.5" to rear bumper.
Estimated at 650-700hp, hasn't seen the rollers yet.

Trans:
TH400 w/ shift kit, rebuilt 100 miles ago.

Interior:
Originally black vinyl bench seat, swapped for SS Buckets and console with Horseshoe Shifter (also in black vinyl)
Needs recovered, but I have new covers and foam for all seats.
Carpet new, black in color.
Dash is clean, no cracks.
AutoMeter "Monster" 5" Tach w/ Shift Light-Mounted center dash, below cover.
Autometer 2 5/8 Oil Pressure, Coolant Temp, and Volts gauges mounted below dash at front of console.
Factory Delco AM/FM/8-Track Stereo-Single speaker in package tray.

Exterior:
Originally light green metallic (think Pea Green, with White vinyl top)
Vinyl top removed, holes welded.
Entire car stripped to bare metal, dings, dents, and other damage hammered out with body hammers and dollies-Not a drop of body filler ANYWHERE.
Fenders replaced. Hood replaced with 4" Harwood Cowl Induction Hood, to clear carb/air cleaner after engine swap.
Stock wheels replaced with 15" Corvette Rally wheels and BFGoodrich Radial T/A rubber.
"SS" stripes, need to be continued onto hood when the front end is painted
Bumpers (front and rear) replaced with spotless ones from Texas (took 4 sets to find bumpers clean enough to use)
Hotchkis suspension parts (not sure exactly what it has, I was young when it all went on)
No rust ANYWHERE. Going to lift it up and paint the frame/undercarriage with POR-15 to prevent rust and make it all "pretty".
Paint is a base tint used for late-90's/early-2000's GM "Millenium Yellow"/"Competition Yellow"-Very easy to find, easy to match, and it's a cool color.
Body cladding is all OE-stamped "SS454" rocker moldings/emblems.

For anyone interested, the picture is attached. I'll post a project thread once I get the car running/driving again, it's been parked for 3 years 6 months, the last time I drove it was when I took it to Dad's funeral in my Army Class A dress uniform. Needs some finishing work, but it's a complete car, and I am determined to finish it the way Dad would have wanted it. It's not an F-Body, nor an LT1, but I think everyone here can appreciate it for what it is, and I hope nobody faults me for "ditching" the LT1 in favor of my Dad's Car.

Monte 1.jpg

Sorry for writing a book, if anyone wants more details, let me know, and I'll share what I know. I have a folder over 1" thick full of receipts, Dad kept EVERYTHING for the car, including the hand-written "Bill of Sale" from when he bought the engine block in April 1996. This car was Dad's pride and joy, and now I get to finish what he started. Should be a VERY stout driver when it's done, although I do have to "detune" it a bit to make it streetable, it's only getting 2mpg (literally, I'm not exaggerating AT ALL.) running 110 octane "Turbo Blue" race gas, which at present is $6.99/Gallon, and requires driving over an hour to obtain, I'm spending over $3.50/mile to drive this car. Factor in costs to go pick up gas, limitations on how much I can fit in my trunk, and the sheer cost of filling a tank ($132.81 for 19 gallons, plus travel costs to get it (50 miles each way, at 28mpg in my Daily, times $3.69/gallon=$13.18. . .

Factors out to $7.67/gallon, or $3.83/mile to drive the car at all. That's expensive, considering it costs me 20.5 CENTS per mile to drive the Formula, at 18mpg.

Plans at this point are to swap the heads for aluminum open-chamber heads, thicker head gaskets (to drop compression, aiming for 10.5:1 CR), and eventually, replace the TH400 with a TKO 600 5-speed, taller rear gears (has either 3.31 or 2.72 rear gears ATM), or possibly swap the engine completely, although I'd like to keep it as close to the current setup as possible.