Forged 383 Rotating Assembly Suggestions

[Huff035]

Well as some of you know I have been convinced to build my car. I plan on building an all forged 383, with either a P1SC or a D1SC. Just looking for some suggestions on a rotating assembly. Don't really have enough knowledge yet to make up my own kit. I've gotten some suggestions but would like some more. Budget for the rotating assembly is $1900-$2300. Hopefully thats enough of a range for a good one, but we all know how "budgets" go...


Thanks in advance! :peace2:

[Huff035]

Links would be great as well... :)

[95formula383lt1]

good stuff, and u only want to buy brand new stuff right?

[Huff035]

Correct, only new. Probably will end up going ported heads and intake for now.



Here is a link to a suggestion that I was given.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-B12110030/

What do you guys think?

[Huff035]

bump.

[95formula383lt1]

Correctly only new. Probably will end up going ported heads and intake for now.



Here is a link to a suggestion that I was given.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-B12110030/

What do you guys think?

you might have to up the cc volume on those 16 cc pistons to 22cc depending upon how much boost ur going to run so u can run a safe compression ratio. bur that is the same kit in my 383 with the 16cc and it had a small blower on it and can handle a bigger one too.

[Huff035]

Come on people help me out please

[5POINT7]

Come on people help me out please
I believe popo did a 383, he might be able to help you out.

[Huff035]

yeah i have talked to him some, just trying to get as many opinions before I start buying. its something that i dont want to being multiples of lol

[Fastbird]

Huff, what are your power goals. That's going to dictate a LOT of how much you spend. In my case, my rotating assembly was costly. $750 for a Lunati Sledgehammer crank. $1200 for Lunati Pro-Billet Rods. $650 for custom Diamond pistons.

Now, you can go VERY close to the same parts, just go with a forged Lunati rod for about $500-600 IIRC, and that would put you pretty close to your rotating assembly goal.

My suggestion would be to find a reputable local engine shop and talk to them. I had my motor built at a good shop 2 miles from my house in NJ, and they were Lunati/Diamond dealers to boot so it just worked out.

Spend what you can for the best components you can. In a high HP build the little things start to matter (chamfering on the crank counter weights, rod weights, ect).

[Huff035]

I'm looking for a minimum of 450-500. It will be mostly just a weekend car. Strip occasionally. Definitely not daily driver but I want it to be fairly reliable.

[1963SS]

Here's one kit that has made many more than 500 HP. It's already balanced and ready to go. Upgrade to ARP rod bolts for even more horsepower. I used this in my first LT1 (400 RWHP) and I flogged it mercilessly for three years and had zero problems. Second LT1 (425 RWHP) My new one not installed yet (hoping for more than 425):drool:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-B12111030/

[Fastbird]

OMG dude. For 450-500 RWHP, jeez, just do a stock cranked forged rod/piston 355 with a P-1SC pullied up. A built 383 and a D-1SC is a solid 600+ RWHP setup. You don't need any of that if your goals are just 450-500. Here's what I'd do to make your goals (and it would be an AWESOME driver car for sure):

355 CID
Stock Crank
Eagle H-Beam Rods
Shelf set of Diamond dished pistons
Stock Ported heads
set SCR to about 9.25:1 via chamber/head gasket thickness based on shelf piston dish
A baby cam in the 218/224 range (think CC304) on about a 114* lsa
Single pump fuel system should suffice on stock lines
60# injectors
P1-SC or D-1SC blower kit, either or, D-1SC you can underdrive a tad and make what the P1 will
Do the ATI twin's since you've got the nose air inlet issues on the T/A
Meth injection as a safety net
Tune the ever living shit out of it


I would guarantee that at 12-14lbs of boost that car set up above would more than likely crack the 500 mark at the wheels and provide a daily driver quality and reliability. Honestly if I had it to do all over again this is a route I probably would have gone. It won't have to rev to the moon, will be awesome under the curve, and be enough to bitch slap a lot of stuff running around still.

[95formula383lt1]

he said minimum... he wants about 700rwhp i think. and fire67 has a d1sc kit forsale for a trans am with the ati twins

[Huff035]

More is good. lol. 500 is more like the very minimum. around 600-650 would be ideal.

[95formula383lt1]

you can make 650 on stock ported heads.

[Fastbird]

More is good. lol. 500 is more like the very minimum. around 600-650 would be ideal.

Ok, then that changes things. You'd have to stuff a LOT of air through a 355 to make it there. 383 is obviously a little better here but on stock heads you're still going to "see" a lot of boost. A set of larger runner aftermarket castings would help a lot, but let's not get into the heads part yet because this thread is asking about rotating assemblies.

IF you can afford it, look into the Lunati cranks. I have a sledgehammer crank, and Call911 is running one also and he is less than kind to his car when he drives it. They're stout pieces but you pay for it (they're about $750-800). The rods you do NOT want to skimp on. H-Beams are stronger, but heavier. I-Beams are lighter, but will break easier. Billet are the shiz but will run you $1200+ for Lunati or Oliver billet rods. Eagle makes a good rod, but there's other options. Lunati Pro-Mod's are great, Compstar are basically an Eagle that's been renamed. Never used any scat stuff so no comment. Manley.......good stuff.

Let me ask this though: How much do you anticipate spending, especially since you're essentially starting from scratch.

[Huff035]

Ok, then that changes things. You'd have to stuff a LOT of air through a 355 to make it there. 383 is obviously a little better here but on stock heads you're still going to "see" a lot of boost. A set of larger runner aftermarket castings would help a lot, but let's not get into the heads part yet because this thread is asking about rotating assemblies.

IF you can afford it, look into the Lunati cranks. I have a sledgehammer crank, and Call911 is running one also and he is less than kind to his car when he drives it. They're stout pieces but you pay for it (they're about $750-800). The rods you do NOT want to skimp on. H-Beams are stronger, but heavier. I-Beams are lighter, but will break easier. Billet are the shiz but will run you $1200+ for Lunati or Oliver billet rods. Eagle makes a good rod, but there's other options. Lunati Pro-Mod's are great, Compstar are basically an Eagle that's been renamed. Never used any scat stuff so no comment. Manley.......good stuff.

Let me ask this though: How much do you anticipate spending, especially since you're essentially starting from scratch.


Stock ported heads are only if money is running low at the end. Which I'm sure it will be getting close. I was looking at cranks after your first post and i can a sledgehammer for $609 from jegs or summit. Haven't really shopped around alot yet. I'm not really sure how much the machine work will cost. I actually have no clue. I'm hoping to keep the short block under $4k. But once again, I don't even have a guess about machine work or assembly.

[Fastbird]

$4K MIGHT be doable. Remember there's a lot fo machine work involved, bearings, bolts, you're going to want to do a splayed 4 Bolt main setup, ect. I'd say budget $5-6K for the interim low end.

For reference, and I can produce a breakdown sheet if necessary, my short block cost right at $9K but I went all out on it also. You're looking at $2K in parts for JUST the rotating assembly, and if I had to guess at the very least another $1K in parts for bearings, caps, bolts, ect. Figure machining and labor adds up quick too.

[Huff035]

Oh also Popo and I were talking and he said he could take it to the machine shop that did his motor and does alot of work for his shop and i might get a little better of a deal.

[Huff035]

$4K MIGHT be doable. Remember there's a lot fo machine work involved, bearings, bolts, you're going to want to do a splayed 4 Bolt main setup, ect. I'd say budget $5-6K for the interim low end.

For reference, and I can produce a breakdown sheet if necessary, my short block cost right at $9K but I went all out on it also. You're looking at $2K in parts for JUST the rotating assembly, and if I had to guess at the very least another $1K in parts for bearings, caps, bolts, ect. Figure machining and labor adds up quick too.

You went from a stock to a 383 right? How much was just the machine work?

[Fastbird]

Hard to say considering I was starting with a semi-fresh 355 that was JUNK (AP Engineering if anyone remembers them) so the .030 over was already done and I only paid for a finish hone because amazingly the cylinders were good. Here's a breakdown on the work completed on my motor:

Clean, remove cam bearings/freeze plugs -- $98.75
Install cam bearings, freeze plugs, R&R Oil Gallery plugs -- $120
Set Rod/Main bearing clearances -- $133.50
Resurface/Square up block and deck -- $232.50
Complete engine assembly -- $775.16
Install aftermarket Main Caps (Splayed 4 bolt, to include machine work) -- $556.25
Install pistons/con rods -- $59.63
Balancing -- 333.75
Flow test heads -- 44.50
Finish hone cylinders -- 148.36
O-Ring engine block deck -- 296.37 (this was because I plan on SHOVING boost through the motor).
I do believe they freebied me on the block crank clearancing for the 383 though.

Add that up if you want. It's well over $2500. Yes, some of it is much pricier than your average shop, but the shop that built my motor is good.....ask Call911, they did his motor too.

[popo8]

I believe popo did a 383, he might be able to help you out.


we discussed that alot, but alot of people dont like the parts I used....

IE FOrged Eagle Crank....

[Fastbird]

we discussed that alot, but alot of people dont like the parts I used....

IE FOrged Eagle Crank....

Nothing wrong with that. Eagle is decent stuff. It's what's in my vette (rods at least).

[popo8]

The way I see it is I basically gave a blank check (metaphorically speaking) for my other boss to get what I needed. He did some research and ordered what I needed, and I trust him.....

He built a twin turbo small block (400ci) twin turbo vette in the 2,000 hp range bimself....

[Fastbird]

The only issue with your lower end cranks (Eagle, Scat, Compstar, ect) is that they will typically need more balancing than your higher end stuff, which can get EXPENSIVE given how expensive mallory is. In terms of strength you probably don't give up much if any, it's just a matter of overall quality of the part.

[Z28pr0jekt]

Agreed.. my future build will be callies dragonslayer crank, oliver billet rods, and diamond pistons.. shouldn't have to touch a damn thing after that...

but for now i have a forged eagle crank, manley hbeams, SRP forged pistons.

[95formula383lt1]

i too have a eagle forged crank, and h beams an srp pistons and its a boost motor. nothin wrong with eagle goodies.

[popo8]

I love the new build.... and knowing it is right, means everything.....
I thought about the dragon slayer,,, but GD they are expensive...

[Huff035]

After looking at the prices of all the stuff that has been recommend I could afford the lunati block that fastbird suggested. But it would seriously be disadvantaged by the heads. being ported stockers... Unless AI or LE would be worth me keeping the ported stockers until I can afford some better heads.

Also I was searching ebay just to get an idea of some prices too. Found a 383 lt1, sledgehammer, lunati billet rods, custom diamond pistons (made to my choice), callies splayed billet main caps. all assembled and internally balanced for $4995. About a grand over what I wanted to spend on a shortblock.

So I'm not sure what to do...

[Huff035]

Maybe I'll go low boost on stock motor and just build the spare block that I have the way I'll need it for bigger boost. Because I don't really want to skimp on stuff and then have to buy again later.

How much boost can a 150k mile LT1 hold safely anyways... i don't want it to go boom quite yet...

[CALL911]

Did someone CALL 911? :devil:

If you want part info, I couldn't agree more with what Fastbird has already said.

It sounds like more than anything you are just trying to decide if you want to go in the hole and buy what is needed to make your power goals come true and be reliable, or if you'd rather go the cheep route and look for less unreliable power.

If you want advice or opinions mine will always be towards the side of building it right the first time by doing something you'll be happy with, and if you can't afford to do that now, just hold off all together until you can. Boosted projects ALWAYS end up over what you planned on spending. So if its going to break the bank on paper just figuring costs, then you're probably going to be hosed when it comes down to actually doing it and you run into the inevitable snag that will happen.

If you go cheep and unreliable, usually your power goals are not met, and whether they are or are not, it usually ends up as a catastrophic break when something does end up going, and then your going to be much worse off financially than you would be in your current position (but then you also have a busted down car you already spent time effort and money in to worry about as well). Even if you don't drive it much, un-reliable means it might make it 10,000 miles, or maybe not to its first oil change.

I think anytime you want to go boosted, you should build it to take MORE than the power you ever think about putting it through for reliability. I could have gone with Eagle rods, and they may have held, but why loose sleep at night worrying if when I put the hammer down that something might have gone wrong? I sleep peaceably in my bed at night knowing that even though I unleashed hell on my boosted LTX earlier that it just smiled back at me asking for more.

It's your shot to call man. But if it were me, I'd wait until I could do it right and have a bit extra to spend for the extra inevitables.

[Huff035]

I'm trying to get some rough price list together here. What bearings would you guys suggest?

[CamaroZGuy]

the quote i have gotten for a Forged short block 383ci was right around $3000, with
Forged callies compstar crank
Callies compstar rods
SRP pistons
4bolt caps and rings,
acl race bearings,
main studs,
block,
all machine work,
blueprinting and assembly.

but i may kick it up a bit since that was suggested for 10-12PSI

[QC97Z]

I was originally going with an N/A 396, but it'd be too wild and unreliable for my power goals. I decided to go 383 S/C. I'm in the same boat as some of you. Maybe I can tag along and get some good info.

[popo8]

I was originally going with an N/A 396, but it'd be too wild and unreliable for my power goals. I decided to go 383 S/C. I'm in the same boat as some of you. Maybe I can tag along and get some good info.

not in the same boat as him....anymore.

[radcannon]

Boosting is awesome... You can go all out and do the billet rods and the custom pistons but for 600 at the wheels no need. I have a friend making 2000+ on a twin turbo LS1 and he is using that stuff. It is certified to 6 seconds.

I have a 360 with a Vortech T-Trim pullied to the max. No cooler just methanol injection, LE2 heads, Scat 6 in H beams, Diamond forged pistons -16cc, and cola race crank. I got a MLS gasket because I called the company can't remember the name I will find it if you want said it they took it 44 psi before they blew the gasket. An o-ringed motor is unecessary for ~1000 hp application.

I made 420/400 at 3 1/2 psi. So I am stepping it up to as high as the T-Trim can do and am hoping for high 600's at the wheel at around 14-16 and I feel comfortable with it no problem. If it was 800-900 at the wheels I would be a little uncomfortable but not now.

[popo8]

Boosting is awesome... You can go all out and do the billet rods and the custom pistons but for 600 at the wheels no need. I have a friend making 2000+ on a twin turbo LS1 and he is using that stuff. It is certified to 6 seconds.

I have a 360 with a Vortech T-Trim pullied to the max. No cooler just methanol injection, LE2 heads, Scat 6 in H beams, Diamond forged pistons -16cc, and cola race crank. I got a MLS gasket because I called the company can't remember the name I will find it if you want said it they took it 44 psi before they blew the gasket. An o-ringed motor is unecessary for ~1000 hp application.

I made 420/400 at 3 1/2 psi. So I am stepping it up to as high as the T-Trim can do and am hoping for high 600's at the wheel at around 14-16 and I feel comfortable with it no problem. If it was 800-900 at the wheels I would be a little uncomfortable but not now.

Agreed, I love my boost....