What kind of timing are you guys running?

[pyro719]

My timing on the motor @ wot is 42 degrees according to datmaster. Does this seem high? How many degrees should I pull out for a 150rwhp wet shot?

[proace4]

i'm pulling 3 degrees for a 75 shot, without any problems. so maybe 6 degrees? and then back it off slowly.

also how are you seeing what the timing is in datamaster? like what screen or graph?

[pyro719]

You can watch your timing advance with datamaster. My tune is also commanding 42 degrees at wot. I can read an modify it via tunercats

[BLOWNDFIZ]

IMO that is a ton of timing.... Do you have a custom tune? I'd like to think PCMforless doesn't have that much in mine, I like more around 36 total then I pull 3 degree's every 50hp (I know it's too much but I like to keep my pistons hole free).

[jakesz28]

42 is a bunch of timing are you sure it needs that much? I would think that on a 150 shot that you would want about 32-33 total on a mild build maybe less if the motor is makin good power.

[pyro719]

Yea its a pcmforless tune. The tune says 38 degrees at wot but datamaster is saying 42 degrees. I have a mallory 685 to pull timing. We tried lowering the timing down to 35 on motor and lost 4rwhp so we put it back to 38

[84ta406]

I know on my SBC it like 34-36* total timing. Not sure how diffrent it is with a LT1.

[Twisted Z]

You would think after all these years they would have figured out the adder we mapped back in 00!

I am running 32 in the table for 36 delivered nand on the bottle I pull 9* for a .088 jet

[Speed Inc.]

I plan to run 16-20 total on the gun ( depending on shot ).

shooting for an A/F around 12.0-12.4

starting out with a #7 plug

[jakesz28]

Larry I would think with an afr of 12.4 your plugs will be dark. I had a bunch of color when I switched to c-16 on my car with an afr of 12.8-13.1 In order to clean up my plugs the way I want I bet I will be pushing 14-1.

[paul95z]

Yea its a pcmforless tune. The tune says 38 degrees at wot but datamaster is saying 42 degrees. I have a mallory 685 to pull timing. We tried lowering the timing down to 35 on motor and lost 4rwhp so we put it back to 38

This is because the factory pcm adds 2 degrees at 4k and another 2 at 5k. No way around it, has to happen. Most tuners know this and tune around it.

[skinnies]

I remember back in around 2005 we put a pcmforless tune on my buddies car, also had 42 degrees timing at wot, on the dyno we pulled out 4 degrees and gained 8rwhp, all on motor.

Best would be to pull a plug after a run and see where the timing mark is on it, but I'd start at 28-30 degrees and work your way up. I always favor on the safe side though, working slowly until your mph comes back.

[Chased]

I pull anywhere from 8 to 15 degrees with a 200 shot on 112 octane

[gregrob]

You guys who think 42 deg istoo much couldnt be more wrong. My pcmforless tune has 42 as well.

I talked to Ion a long time about this and he said people think that is high but in some areas of the table / under certain conditions the STOCK timing table goes that high.


Mine commands 42 up to about 4500 rpms then tapers off slowly to about 38-39 total.

One thing to remember is this is not a SBC and this is not and LSX.

Ion advised me to pull 4 degrees for the 150 shot.

I'll probably pull 6 to start and work up from there reading the plugs.

He said 2 for 100 3 for 125 4 for 150 etc.

With the 200 shot I'll probably pull 8 and work from there.

Total timing depends on air / fuel, heads, plugs you're using etc.

Theres no set hard and fast rules, you have to tune it for what the car likes.


.02

[jakesz28]

I tend to think most people run to much timing and to much fuel.


I guess lowering one or adding the other both lower temps. But nitrous cars want a cleaner afr then boosted cars.

[Twisted Z]

I agree more with Jake here. Starting at 42* is like tossing matches at a puddel of gas. most the time you might get away with it but you ARE going to get burned. I would never roll the dice of a customers engine on it.

I am not saying you won't end up there. the more in-efficent and engine is the more timing it needs. Mine made over 660RWHP with only 22 ;)

No need to stuff more in it and chance the pistons IMHO

[gregrob]

I agree more with Jake here. Starting at 42* is like tossing matches at a puddel of gas. most the time you might get away with it but you ARE going to get burned. I would never roll the dice of a customers engine on it.

I am not saying you won't end up there. the more in-efficent and engine is the more timing it needs. Mine made over 660RWHP with only 22 ;)

No need to stuff more in it and chance the pistons IMHO

To clarify, I was talking about 42 on motor only.

I would never run that kinda of curve on even a small shot.

Hence the reason I'll be pulling 6 deg through the Mallory box on my 150 shot.

[93v8clone]

my pcmfor less tune ,is at 33 totall at w.o.t according to my modis scanner .i ran that on c16 and a 150 shot on a stock gut motor for about 50 bottles with no problem .not sure about the new motor i gotta get it buttoned up and on the dyno to see where its at .oh and im on a wet shot for what its worth

[jakesz28]

To clarify, I was talking about 42 on motor only.

I would never run that kinda of curve on even a small shot.

Hence the reason I'll be pulling 6 deg through the Mallory box on my 150 shot.


36* could be to much for a 150 shot.


What people don't understand is on nitrous with the correct AFR you don't need alot of timing.

I know of LS1 style motors in the single digets on nitrous. Yes it is a bigger shot and a more effient motor but then other LS1 combo's people try to run at 20* burn them up.

[93v8clone]

i tested a lot when i got my bottle ,shit prolly 6-7 bottles to get it right and i run same timing motor and jug .just do a c-16 mix if im really beatin it

[gregrob]

Thanks for the input Mike. How much do you think I should pull to start w then? 8?

What AFR should I shoot for?

[jakesz28]

I don't really get into pulling a set amount of timing for the same size shot on every motor. But I would want it to be in the 28-32* range for a 150 shot to start. So it depends on how much timing is in your tune. The thing about pulling a little extra timing to start with is it doesn't kill that much power usually. As far as a certain afr to shot for I don't think there is a set number every combo needs something a little different. But if you found what afr you made max power on N/A that is were I would got to start with. It is best to look at the plugs. But on a small shot like this unless you get oil in the chamber from bad rings it is usually hard to hurt it.