Which Auto Transmission for a built motor?

[James Montigny]

Another Pros/Cons discussion thread.
When I look at my options, I feel a little lost.

Beefed up 4L60? TH400? Powerglide? Other options?

Obviously, some have OD, some don't. Which could make it a pain on the street.
I know some are heavier than others.
Some may or may not work with the OEM shifter (I've seen some adapter kits)

In my case ('93) the PCM does not control the transmission, I would think that should
make it easier for me to perform a swap in an older style tranny, but I could be wrong.

[jakesz28]

Depends on power and the times your wanting to run. What one person is using may not work as good with your combo. My car will see a little street action but it is a race car by build. I wanted to leave on a big shot and converters have came a long ways. My fear was dragging the back bumper and tearing up the front end on landing. So I chose a powerglide. It's gone 1.313 60' already with a small controlled wheelie. But it is a dog leaving the line on the motor.

[lethal93ta]

yep that really depends on you, if you do a lot of highway driving just build your 4l60 up you can make them handle 500 HP and hold up to some abuse, my trans stock held for 2 years with the blower on there running at the track every weekend, I just wanted something I know would hold up so I went TH400 its a little more weight then a 350 but worth it since i want to drive mine to the track and home mine is no trailer queen so I need it to hold up to get me home.

[OutlawZ]

Depends on power and the times your wanting to run. What one person is using may not work as good with your combo. My car will see a little street action but it is a race car by build. I wanted to leave on a big shot and converters have came a long ways. My fear was dragging the back bumper and tearing up the front end on landing. So I chose a powerglide. It's gone 1.313 60' already with a small controlled wheelie. But it is a dog leaving the line on the motor

Great discussion post BTW.... The above that jake was talking about is completely true.... I chose a TH400 awhile back when my car was still pretty street/strip with a little nitrous 355 that ran low 10's and was still a daily driver... After the motor swap the 400 is still fine sitting behind this new higher powered motor..... But frankly now we deal with the 2.48 first gear and we're putting it on the bumper on a little 150 shot. A glide would tame the car down and most likely pick up some time. Lower weight, smaller size, less parasitic power loss..... Look at Jake's car and my car. Both cars went 139mph in the 1/4 but he went a low 9.6 whereas I went a 9.79..... My 60' was a 1.40 due to either having to pedal the car for fear of smashing the bumper into the ground and his was a small wheelie 1.3.... So you choose your own poison. Built glides are NOT cheap especially when SFI approved to sit behind mega hp motors. Neither are TH400's but a good solid TH400 from ATI can be had for about 1200-1500 bucks minus converter.... The 400 is a ton of fun on the street if your car still sees some street time. They run pretty cool for a race tranny if you get them with a deep pan. A glide might be a pain on the street. 2 gears ain't the greatest for pulling away from stop lights....

With my setup i might have outgrown the 400.. not power wise just setup wise. I can always go to limiters and/or wheelie bars but for a race only deal the glide offers too many pros and not enough cons. the light weight, the less drivetrain loss, the gearing to keep it off the bumper..... look under many an auto equipped straight up racecar and you'll usually find a glide..... The th400 guys are usually the ones with the grey hair and wild eyed look from one too many wheelstands..... :D

BTW, jake is that a BBC under there?????

[jakesz28]

Nope I have a LTx block built by LME 383 callies rotating assembly wiseco pisstons. Are cars must be making similiar power but I had a little more mph in the 9.64 pass. My stomach has been twisted in knots both times I had the car out. I have been afraid of what may happen with a new combo and have been quick to get off the gas and on the brakes. But that 9.64 pass is off a little I had the shift light set at 7200 even tho the motor will go over 8000. The shift light came back on and I tapped the brakes then got back on the gas at this time I clearly saw the two boxs at the end of the track. So I would imagine that I lost 2-4 mph. On that pass I lifted the front tires maybe 6 inches. Next pass I put a .075 jet in it felt a little better about leaving the line. Pulled the wheels about a foot and carried them there. Before the 1/8 I was pedaling the car. But at that point I wasn't that scared and got back in it a few times. Everytime you would hear the nitrous hit again the car got loose. But it was all about the track condition then and I might have drifted out of the grove a little.

[OutlawZ]

get your car scaled...... dunno your suspension setup but mine leaving on the 150 shot (.065 jet) it yanks em but car never spins the tires..... BMR swaybar, double adjustable shocks, ET Drags at 9 psi pre-burnout.... On a spohn torque arm no less that ppl say they have ripped in half on lesser passes.....

But the scaling and alignment was KEY... as well as the DA shocks.... we're going out soon on the big shot... gonna put limiters on the car and hit it with 300hp worth..... expecting 9.20ish.....

[jakesz28]

Well if you looked at what I had for suspension you wouldn't beleave it. My chassis guy is going to put it on scales after I get some shocks I'm just broke at the minute. I have comp eng rear shocks the front strut and springs came out with the car from the factory. I have a midwest chassis fabbed 9" similiar to the M9. With his long torque arm, rod ended lca, and panhard bar.

I'll being trying the fogger right off the brake soon.

[Stroked96Bowtie]

Im running the TH350, doesnt seem as many cars run these as a TH400 but alot of guys build way overkill most of the time. Im not running as fast as you guys (Jake and Outlaw) but the trans has held up good...shifts hard...hasnt let me down yet!

Its lighter than any auto trans other than a PG.

[Chopstix]

700r4 here...but will be going to a glide when it gives up the fight

[James Montigny]

Lots of good info guys, keep it coming.
I'd like to hear more about the PowerGlide (pros and cons).
It sounds like it's very light, are the gears maybe too steep for a street car?

This isn't so much a "What fits my application?" kind of question thread,
but more of a "What's out there and when would one solution fit better (or worse) than others?" discussion.

It sounds like a lot of people are running TH400s for their strength,
what about their weaknesses? (heavy? inefficient?)

Stroked96Bowtie, you mentioned the TH350 being light.
How it is efficiency wise and at what power level do you decide that you have no choice but to upgrade?

[jakesz28]

A lot of fast cars still run glides on the street. Look at the quicker cars during drag week. If your running a looser N/A convertor I could see some problems with the glide on the street. The th350 can handle a lot of abuse when built but if your moving out theres always a chance of something going out.

With the manual valve body and the car being a new combo I can even drive off when I forget to put it in first but you notice the load.

[KissMyWhtSS]

Go TH-400 if your okay with losing OD.

[Stroked96Bowtie]

Lots of good info guys, keep it coming.
I'd like to hear more about the PowerGlide (pros and cons).
It sounds like it's very light, are the gears maybe too steep for a street car?

This isn't so much a "What fits my application?" kind of question thread,
but more of a "What's out there and when would one solution fit better (or worse) than others?" discussion.

It sounds like a lot of people are running TH400s for their strength,
what about their weaknesses? (heavy? inefficient?)

Stroked96Bowtie, you mentioned the TH350 being light.
How it is efficiency wise and at what power level do you decide that you have no choice but to upgrade?

TH400s are stonger but also heavier/less efficient
TH350 are lighter and also more efficient
PG has a very low first gear, you have to have a HIGH stall convertor or using the sauce to get the combo to roll out. Very light and efficient.

Then the TH350 in my car lets go I will put in a PG probably. Im not sure what that HP number is on these...I had a friend push his TH350 in a truck into the 5.xx's in the 1/8 with nothing more than a moderate build at best.

[aSSn8r]

someone compare the 350 to the 400 to the 4l60e, im about to make this decision as well

[lethal93ta]

someone compare the 350 to the 400 to the 4l60e, im about to make this decision as well

4l60E= good to maybe 500 HP if built right good over all driver trans if its a daily car,

TH350= good trans for a street/strip car, only a 3 speed so highway driving wouldnt be that great, can be built to hold some good HP numbers probably good to 700 HP if built right, smallest/lightest of the 3 speed transmissions

TH400= the bigblock of transmissions, can take just about anything you can put to it upwords of 1000HP if built right, a little more weight than the 350 but will handle more power.

[joelster]

th350 here. It's good for 700hp. I bet there aren't too many 700hp LT1's around here either, even on a 150 shot.

[James Montigny]

TH400= the bigblock of transmissions, can take just about anything you can put to it upwords of 1000HP if built right, a little more weight than the 350 but will handle more power.The complaint I hear over and over with the 400 is the lack of efficiency.
No one ever explains why it's inefficient though.

[lethal93ta]

The complaint I hear over and over with the 400 is the lack of efficiency.
No one ever explains why it's inefficient though.

its more weight with bigger internal parts so it takes a little more to turn all those big heavy parts inside.


its crazy how much rotating mass can change things, when we balance cranks at the shop its nuts how much faster you can spin a lighter crank.

[aSSn8r]

So how much for a strong 350 w/converter and what all would i need to get it rigged into my LTx?

[joelster]

So how much for a strong 350 w/converter and what all would i need to get it rigged into my LTx?

I posted this reply in another thread:



I run a th350 in my car, love it! The recipes out there to make them strong are well known. My tranny cost me $695.00. It is a full manual valve body, forward pattern, rated to 700hp. The fitz-all th350-4L60 kit was $125.00. What this kit does is it allows you to bolt your 4L60 tailshaft to the th350 so that the torque arm mount is there, and the speedo reluctor is there, and the factory crossmember bolts right up too. With the forward pattern I was able to use the stock shifter, just had to adjust where it mounted to the pan. I could have went with a reverse pattern but then I would have to push the button for every upshift (no thanks). My converter was a custom nitrous converter (4000 rpm) and was $500.00 . There are millions of th350/400 converters out there. I also had to buy a Lokar flexible dipstick tube which was $75.00. Another plus about a th350, is that if ANYTHING ever happens to it, you can literally take it anywhere to be rebuilt if you are in a pinch. Everyone has a performance shop that can rebuild 350/400's but not 4L60's/700's. I have seen some local shops around here build 4L's and they last maybe a year or so. Much tougher tranny to build strong.

What I spent total:
$695----tranny
$125----adapter kit
$75-----dipstick
$500----converter

total:
$1395, tranny is good to 700hp, converter is good to 800hp

[lethal93ta]

My Th400 cost me a lot more than that but its a pro built trans that will handle 1000+ HP,
Trans------ $1500 RMVB w/trans brake, Alu trans pan,
Converter-- $780 ATI Tree master MRT custom converter
Trans cooler- $150 HD cooler with built in fan
crossmember- $170 BMR tubular
Speedo reluctor-$40
speedo sensor--$70
ARP flex bolts---$11
ARP converter--$ 8
SFI flexplate--- $60
B&M shifter----$200
Cro-moly shaft-$600
--------------------
Total---------$3589

[grn95t/a]

i just dropped 2000.00 with ati for my th400 rmvb and blown/fuel converter. 300.00 for a strange drivestaft and 180.00 on the crossmember. can't wait to get it in the t/a and hammer it through the gears a few times! drove my friends 94 z28 with almost the same set up ( different converter ) and man what a blast to drive!

[Speed Density]

700R4 here as well, ill go 6 speed when this trans takes a dump.

I should be around 700rw on gas, I doubt the trans will last, but im sure itll hold a few 9 second passes.

[SSSC]

:DTalk to these people here.http://www.rosslertrans.com/Transmission%27s.htm .Good place to getting answers to your Questions. All of the trannys listed.Plus one no one has mentioned the 200. All have there place in fast/race/street cars.The Power glide is pretty much the mule/work horse of the trannys been around a very long time. With a lot of options and prolly the lightest of all the trannys. Check this link out lots of great old school info on the glides th400/th 350.http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/oftrn.htm.:D

[James Montigny]

Saw this in another thread, I'm gonna have to follow up with this guy.
If his builds can handle Ed's wheelstands, they're more than big enough for anything I build.


This one has held up for years:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=254558


4L60E in Ed Wright's car (old 383 setup 10.20s NA 9.80s on the juice at this time) The car ended up doing a best of 9.91 NA. Trans was built locally by Ronald Lee. It's all in the builder. You have got to make sure you have someone who knows exactly what they are doing, which Ron does. Can't just trust any shop with an electronic trans. There's alot more people who can build a good TH350 than 700R4 or 4L60E. Almost any old school gearhead can rebuild a TH350. The biggest difference is the price. You got to drop some pretty serious money into a 4L60E compared to a TH350.

My .02

[youngblood]

i know im bringing up an old post but does everyone just use the brackets that relocate the torque arm?