Talk me into it. Cam change

[IronOutlaw]

Ive started collecting parts for a cam change to complete this summer in my camaro, but Ive started getting nervous after seeing a few threads of cam changes gone wrong. A guy on ls1tech needs a new bottom end from spinning a rod bearing, which could be unrelated, and I remember a thread on here of a guy losing pressure and burning oil. :cry: There was also a guy I saw that pulled his cam and found out his cam was getting eat up and his cam bearing were shot and needed a rebuild.

My car has 128000 miles on it. Im running Castrol Syntec 5w-30 and it hold 60psi cold. 40 cruising warm and 20 idling:hmm: when its hot out. Car runs slick and dont skip a beat.
I have noticed some ticking on startup in the mornings. I was running Castrol GTx 10w40 for a week and it tapped pretty bad, sounded like a lifter I think, so I changed to the lighter synthetic. Now it ticks for about a minute and then stops. Its not very bad but you can hear it sitting in the car idling with the windows up.

So my question is, would you do it? I know there is no way of knowing what my cam bearings are gonna look like, or what the inside of the engine looks like in general. when I changed the oil it was clean and there was no metal on the magnetic drain plug, if that counts for anything.

If I do decide to do it Im getting new lifters, timing chain, etc so everything on the top end will be in good shape.

Thanks for reading my long rambling,

Trent

[Z28pr0jekt]

I put my cc306 in with 135-140k miles on the car... but i also swapped out lifters and pushrods so you may want to do that also

[KissMyWhtSS]

I was going to cam my SS at 152k. It gets slightly better oil pressure and I ran mobil 1 synthetic.

The biggest issues with spun bearings are poor installation (make sure its a clean install and you don't get dirt into your motor, change your oil after installing the cam and again in 500 miles, and again in another 2,000 miles.) and over revving your motor. I was planning on running a hotcam and only very slightly bumping my rev limiter (~6k) when tuned.

What cam were you looking at? I'd highly recommend replacing the Lifters and Timing Chain as well as your more obvious valvetrain components (rockers, springs..)

[IronOutlaw]

The entire valvetrain will be getting replaced. Im looking at the cc503, the cc306 and now found out about one that is between the two, I think its like a 230/236 duration cam.
Ill probably just end up getting whatever I can find cheapest and then buy a stall to match it.

[KissMyWhtSS]

If you plan on porting your heads go CC306, if you're keeping the heads stock go CC503. CC503 will also be a fair bit more drivable.

[IronOutlaw]

Heads will be ported in the future if the bottom end holds up. Ill also be spraying the 100 shot if I get brave enough.

[AChotrod]

Do it!!!!! Way more cam intalls go good than bad!!!!!! All depends on how healthy the motor was to start with!!!

[Z28pr0jekt]

Heads will be ported in the future if the bottom end holds up. Ill also be spraying the 100 shot if I get brave enough.
I'd be careful with the 100 hit on top... that might be pushing it..
It's all basically in the tune though


Do it!!!!! Way more cam intalls go good than bad!!!!!! All depends on how healthy the motor was to start with!!!

Very true, if you have a motor that has been not so great then I would save the money for a rebuild, on the other hand if your motor has been great (like mine was) I would not hesitate to swap.

Like I said before my cc306 went in around 135-140K miles and I have 155K on it now and I drive the car literally every day and have driven it from FL-NY and back.

[IronOutlaw]

Ive only driven the car for about 2500 miles since I installed the tranny. My formula held about 10 less psi oil pressure and ticked a lot worse on startup and lasted the whole 3 years I drove it, I feel this motor is in a lot better shape.

Previous owner had the 100 shot on the car and said he sprayed it twice without the bottle heater. I was on a local import site and a guy on there claims he knew a guy who knew the previous owner of the car and said he sprayed the car alot. :doh:Idk which to believe but the motor does seem pretty healthy besides a little lifter noise on cold startups. Does anybody else have this?
I probably wont use the N2o though, Im scared of it.

anyways, just found a cc503 on camaroz28 for 150 I might grab. I really want a 306 but they seen harder to come by used.

[Z28pr0jekt]

Ive only driven the car for about 2500 miles since I installed the tranny. My formula held about 10 less psi oil pressure and ticked a lot worse on startup and lasted the whole 3 years I drove it, I feel this motor is in a lot better shape.

Previous owner had the 100 shot on the car and said he sprayed it twice without the bottle heater. I was on a local import site and a guy on there claims he knew a guy who knew the previous owner of the car and said he sprayed the car alot. :doh:Idk which to believe but the motor does seem pretty healthy besides a little lifter noise on cold startups. Does anybody else have this?
I probably wont use the N2o though, Im scared of it.

anyways, just found a cc503 on camaroz28 for 150 I might grab. I really want a 306 but they seen harder to come by used.

Mine should be coming out and going up for sale in hopefully less than a month (was actually supposed to be done around now)

So I guess it depends on how soon you're looking to have it

[IronOutlaw]

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s321/trentbrock/campics.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s321/trentbrock/campics2.jpg

Got some pics of the cam on cz28. Is this what a cam with 500 miles should look like? Looked at the guys posts and come to find out he bought it from a member last week who bought it from another member and neither of them used it. ??? Something must be wrong with it.

Z28, Ill take you up on your offer. How much would you be asking for it? Pm me if necessary. Dont need the cam for a couple months anyways, Im just piecing everything together. Trying to do everything for under 800 dollars but not use junk if you know what I mean.

[KissMyWhtSS]

Honestly that looks a little worn. Here's a picture of the hotcam I had with ~10k miles on it. I'll see if I have a better angle. Only reason I sold it was because I decided to keep my car stock and use the money to get a DD first. I'm gonna wait till I'm done with school and do it all at once and go bigger.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb257/kiss_my_ss/cam/IMG_0800.jpg

[Z28pr0jekt]

pm sent... for 500 miles that cam is showing excessive wear

[96LT1SS]

we just put the 230/236 in my friends ta and it sounds amazing, now i just have to get mine in also i have 122,xxx

[95formula383lt1]

i put a used cc306 and ported 2.02 1.60 heads and full comp cams valve train and used double roller timming chain out of my 383, in my 183,000 mile lt1 cam berrings looked decent and pulled a main cap looked good to so i went ahead with it, oil pressure is around 20 psi at idle and shoots up to 40psi with reg. driving and 50 to 60 at wot, i put a new melling std vol pump in along with the cam swap and ported intake 58mm thottle body, with stock rockers. rockers tick and clack like crazy has a lil blow by out of the valve cover did decent on the compresson test. Still runs amazing, has no tune and no o2s yet and 200+ miles on it. i would say do a cc306 you will enjoy it, ur motor will be fine just check out ur cam berrings before the install if they look bad change them.

[-DIABLO-]

all i can say choose wise and buy a set of ls7 lifters and if ur not porting heads any time soon i have a set of creomolly pushrods for sale ir ur interested also a cc503 and a gm847 i know what u mean by being scared i was like u when i did my swap then after i finish one of the valves broke and feel in to piston chaimber and lock the motor this was cause i hire this cheap ass machine shop to port my heads and they reused my stock valves which were pretty old 157ish and plus i rev it to high but that was my fault all cause i wanted to save some cash


p.s dont cheap out on valve train and lifters

[Z28pr0jekt]

i put a used cc306 and ported 2.02 1.60 heads and full comp cams valve train and used double roller timming chain out of my 383, in my 183,000 mile lt1 cam berrings looked decent and pulled a main cap looked good to so i went ahead with it, oil pressure is around 20 psi at idle and shoots up to 40psi with reg. driving and 50 to 60 at wot, i put a new melling std vol pump in along with the cam swap and ported intake 58mm thottle body, with stock rockers. rockers tick and clack like crazy has a lil blow by out of the valve cover did decent on the compresson test. Still runs amazing, has no tune and no o2s yet and 200+ miles on it. i would say do a cc306 you will enjoy it, ur motor will be fine just check out ur cam berrings before the install if they look bad change them.

The rocker noise sounds like you need to re-adjust your lash

[95formula383lt1]

yea i think im going to. fire67 helped me adjust them (thank you again justin!) about 225 miles ago since hes the one that got me into lt1's. i might have left a couple a little loose and maybe a few to tight while learning how to adjust them. But the car always had rocker noise since the day i bought it bone stock. thank you for your advice too Z28projekt!

[Z28pr0jekt]

yea i think im going to. fire67 helped me adjust them (thank you again justin!) about 225 miles ago since hes the one that got me into lt1's. i might have left a couple a little loose and maybe a few to tight while learning how to adjust them. But the car always had rocker noise since the day i bought it bone stock. thank you for your advice too Z28projekt!
No problem, you do have poly locks on the rockers right?

[95formula383lt1]

no they are the stock rockers that lt1s came with factory. havent found a good set of rollers yet, and i figure the tune and o2s are more important

[Z28pr0jekt]

no they are the stock rockers that lt1s came with factory. havent found a good set of rollers yet, and i figure the tune and o2s are more important
Ok, well find some rollers and get some poly locks on it and that greatly reduces the chances of them coming out of adjustment...

If there's anything else start another thread or pm me so we don't clog up this one away from the OP :)

[95formula383lt1]

ok ill pm you sorry about that

[Z28pr0jekt]

ok ill pm you sorry about that

Oh no it's alright, I'm the one that offered a suggestion to the noises... I was just saying that so we don't throw this thread way off topic

[IronOutlaw]

Dont worry about getting off topic, I really dont care. ;)
Well, you guys have my confidence up in the motor and I found me a cam. :)
Hopefully Ill have it together by July, which is my goal.
Im going with
Summit 1.6 NSA rollers
cc306
ls7 lifters
new timing chain
hardened pushrods
3500ish stall either fuddle or edge
Tune from either madtuner or pcm4less

Car already has new cap and rotor and a new water pump. yay.

Also gotta get some headers and definitly gonna have to do suspension with my horrible case of wheelhop.

I do have one more question. What springs should I use? Will the cheaper Cranes everyone uses work? Wish I could remember the part number...

[KissMyWhtSS]

Make sure to check the valvetrain geometry when running LS7 lifters. Some say their fine, some say they aren't. It's worth the extra work to ensure your valvetrain is done right.

[BluBeaSSt]

I've been trying to talk YZF into a cam since...well I bought mine LOL

[mtperformance]

Dont worry about getting off topic, I really dont care. ;)
Well, you guys have my confidence up in the motor and I found me a cam. :)
Hopefully Ill have it together by July, which is my goal.
Im going with
Summit 1.6 NSA rollers
cc306
ls7 lifters
new timing chain
hardened pushrods
3500ish stall either fuddle or edge
Tune from either madtuner or pcm4less

Car already has new cap and rotor and a new water pump. yay.

Also gotta get some headers and definitly gonna have to do suspension with my horrible case of wheelhop.

I do have one more question. What springs should I use? Will the cheaper Cranes everyone uses work? Wish I could remember the part number...If you go NSA rockers you need pushrod guides.

[Z28pr0jekt]

Yes the Crane 10308 kit will work, they are what I have on mine and I will most likely be using them for my FI motor also.

and as stated with NSA rockers guideplates are necessary

[PipesTA]

If you go NSA rockers you need pushrod guides.

And he'll need some new rocker studs as well if you're running NSA rockers. I know Summit makes some 3/8 NSA rockers, but I'd get the 7/16 NSA rockers for cheap insurance if you're running the CC306.

[IronOutlaw]

Ive got guideplates and ARP studs coming with the rockers and pushrods. :)
I already payed for the 3/8s. I think they'll be fine. I hope...

[JAKEJR]

Ive got guideplates and ARP studs coming with the rockers and pushrods. :)
I already payed for the 3/8s. I think they'll be fine. I hope...

You should be able to swap the rockers if they're unused, then you won't have to say "I hope . . ."

I'm in the process of doing a head and cam change on my son's 96 LT1 Vette, I'm going 7/16" studs and Scorpion 1.7 RRs.

I just bought the heads; Dart 180s with CC 987 .620 springs.

I'm getting close to deciding on the cam too. It's definitely going to be a custom grind CompCams with their CRC lobes, What's holding me up is the LSA and duration spread I want.

I only mentioned my setup in case you'd like to kick around your options with me.

Jake

[IronOutlaw]

Im pretty sure the rockers will be fine. I bought them used from a guy on here, so theres no exchanging them at the store.
A few guys are running the 306 with stock rockers, which cant be any better than the rollers Ive got coming. The old magnum lobes are supposed to be easier on the valvetrain than the newer grinds so Im not too worried about it.
Sounds like you have a mean setup going. Eventually I want to do a high revving 355.

[KissMyWhtSS]

Eventually I want to do a high revving 355.
When you do, I'd higly suggest going to a 7/16 Stud. I wouldn't really want to rev a 3/8 stud much over 6200.

[IronOutlaw]

When you do, I'd higly suggest going to a 7/16 Stud. I wouldn't really want to rev a 3/8 stud much over 6200.

Oh yeah, that motor will get all new parts. :D

[JAKEJR]

When you do, I'd higly suggest going to a 7/16 Stud. I wouldn't really want to rev a 3/8 stud much over 6200.

That was my point. 7/16" studs with rockers for 7/16" provide more valve train stability when the R's are up.

There benefit increases when higher pressure springs are used to accomodate high performance cams.

Another tip is not to use self-aligning rockers in performance appications.

But, all we can do is recommend; which brings to mind the ". . .bring a horse to water . . ."

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

[KissMyWhtSS]

That was my point. 7/16" studs with rockers for 7/16" provide more valve train stability when the R's are up.Yeah I hear you man, if I were going CC306 I'd be going to a 7/16 stud too. He'll probably be fine, but I'd rather spend more now than a lot later.

You've got some good points and I totally agree man.