Gauging Interest in "BIG" CID LT1 Block

[JAKEJR]

Gauging Interest in "BIG" CID LT1 Block

Yesterday I called Dart to get their published flow numbers on a set of Dart heads I recently bought.

In the conversation with the Tech Support guy, he mentioned that Dart is "considering" casting one of their SHP blocks to become, essentially, a BIG CUBIC INCH LT1 block.

Dart would make the necessary modifications and cast the block to take the LT1 to the next level, but management was concerned about whether there would be enough of a market to defray the costs.

When I mentioned 4.125 bore as standard, his response was, "Oh, a 4.125" bore would be tiny compared to what Dart's considering".

So based on that, we're talking over 454 cubic inches with the new LT1 block which would accept all the LT1 accessories; including heads, intake manifolds, starter, alternator, water pump, Opti, power steering, etc., etc. He mentioned that it would probably be a two piece rear main seal arrangement.

Now, I didn't get many more details, like probable cost, etc., only that company management would have to gauge the demand before agreeing to move in that direction. Remember, this is only in the "consideration stage" right now.

I told the Tech guy that I'd post a thread like this one to see just how many guys would be interested in buying such a block. So if anyone's interested, post a response here and the Technican will review what's written and pass on the responses to management.

I intend to post this thread on several other Forums, too.

Just thought it might be of interest to some.

Jake

West Point Rocks!

[uncool]

I would be very interested in a big inch block.

Since I will be building a few more LT1's, 383 is nice, but a 454 SBC is just way more fun.

Keep us informed.

Thanks

[JPack]

So they are leaking out what I have posted about my engine builder working directly with them. This was his concept and got the ball rolling. http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3865&highlight=cube

BTW it is further along than you were told. Stay tuned.

[roadtrip120]

well at least we know who is considering the project


I would buy the first one , price does not bother me, go big or go home.

[El Super Kevbot]

How much usually are these kind of blocks? I'd be interested.

[slowdime]

No matter the cost, I'd be down for one when they come out. Kinda sad it took so long to get the ball rolling for the LTx's like this though.

[Speed Density]

How much usually are these kind of blocks? I'd be interested.


Garrrrrrrrrrr <-- that much.

Its a cool idea but I doubt it ever hits the streets.

[Z8's]

They have been thinking about it for over a decade now....Just so you know.This is not new news. I still doubt it will ever happen.:shame:

[Jerry Clayton]

well, since it has surfaced-----I approached the Dart people at the big show in Chicago---I had wanted to talk to Richard at the PRI, but he was busy---

I entered into discussion about building the SHP in an LT configureation and went over the ares that needed to be changed----they were pretty engaging in the conversation about the concept as an SHP as there really isn't the demand to build the race block as an LT but with the SHP sales being so brisk, I opened and have been following up with Dart personel about the project---thats why we were looking for an LT block in the Detroit area to get to them but we have one and it will be delivered possibly this week---we also of course needed a front cover, h2o pump and opti----

As the SHP this will most likely be two piece rear seal engine which helps internal balancing

We'll keep everyone posted up to date ---

Jerry Clayton
GMClaytonRacing@msn.com

[tomsws6]

ok, this sounds really awesome but what would be the benefit than to building a 383 or 396? also what kind of power could be expected to come out of this block and also how cost efficient would it be compared to the others?

ps: iv always wanted to pay homage to the 455's fo the earlu 70's! a 455SD LT1 with a supercharger!!!!!!!!!!

[Jerry Clayton]

The bore size---the std OEM LT block is only a 4 inch bore--this one would go to around 4.200 with a4.125 as produced

[roadtrip120]

contact Taner i think he is near detroit and has a extra lt block

[joelster]

ok, this sounds really awesome but what would be the benefit than to building a 383 or 396? also what kind of power could be expected to come out of this block and also how cost efficient would it be compared to the others?

ps: iv always wanted to pay homage to the 455's fo the earlu 70's! a 455SD LT1 with a supercharger!!!!!!!!!!


Seriously?

All things being equal a 454 cube LT1 will make roughly 15-20% more power than a 383. Let that sink in for a second........ You could have a fairly nasty 450hp 383 or a similar built 545hp 454. Night and day power difference right there. Go real aggresive with the valvetrain on the 454 with a solid roller, shaft rockers, and you could easily make a 675+ hp street monster. Byby LS1!

[tomsws6]

i guess whatr im trying to ask is this something that could be used as an everyday driver?

[JPack]

Hi Jerry! :) I have the front cover (2) of them in the garage. I'll drop one off.

[Jerry Clayton]

Another thing----all you LT guys are loyal to your type of engine---opti, h2o pump, reverse cooling---this will let you upgrade your engine to the bigger size higher power without having to spend a fortune on engine accessories and exhaust system and mounts that would be needed if you went for the LS. The Corvette annd Impala SS guys have the highest need to keep original looks as none of those came with LS like the Camaro and Firebirds did

[Jerry Clayton]

thanks Jim---how do I get the picture of one of my Firebirds on here???

[JPack]

Email me one and I'll post it, or I can put up one of the ones I have.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/jpack24/JerryTA.jpg

[Z28pr0jekt]

I basically don't consider this an LT1 at all.. first of all if I were spending that kind of coin on a block, I sure as hell wouldn't put an opti on it..

Second.. I would imagine it would take ZOUNDS of work to get the clearances correct for lt1 heads... and even then you HAVE to have an aftermarket casting because even the baddest stock ported casting would not flow near enough for a motor that size.

Third.. the lt1 intake would never be able to handle enough air so you'd have to switch to a single plane intake anyways.

Fourth... the same headers? A 1 3/4" header simply would not do a motor like that justice.

Basically it is just a reverse flow big block.. which is great and all... but IMHO an LTx it is not

[Jerry Clayton]

But the rare factory big bore ??????is that an LT???

[Z28pr0jekt]

It was in very limited production for a reason

[Jerry Clayton]

And the COIN hasn't been mentioned----

[Z28pr0jekt]

Don't get me wrong, or mistake me for doubtful...

I just find it useless for the fact that for the amount of $$ this will cost, an opti, stock pcm, stock heads, and stock intake would make this motor worthless...

If someone is going to buy this thing they need to be prepared to spend upwards of $15-20,000 for an NA setup

[Jerry Clayton]

for that money, we'll supply a car with it

[Z28pr0jekt]

for that money, we'll supply a car with it

Oh sure you can throw stock lt1 heads and intake on it and an opti and bam you spent under $10,000 on a motor that makes 450whp no thanks

In order to take full advantage of a block like that, it will take substantially more money

[Jerry Clayton]

Most of the guys have already done a l ot of those type improments---but, they are limited on cubes because the block will only go a little over 4 inches on the bore and a 4 in stroke is max---

with this project as an SHP block the bore will be 4.125 plus the usual oversizes allowing a reasonable 4.200 bore---not we are at 430 inches or so and you can use your standard LT components(water pump, a/c, alternator,exhaust). If you want to upgrade--AFR and Dart have some very good heads that will really respond to the larger bore size unshrouding the valves---camshaft choices are unlimited as are oil system options--but they are normal SBC varieties and are the mosr reasonably priced performance parts in the automotive world. The LT engines are limited by bore size, period---the fact that the opti has given people some problems is irrelavant!!!! The reverse cooling is a bonus and with the LT h2o pump it'll look stock for the person that wants to keep that appearance which seems to be 100% on these LTx forums. The block, internal balanced,forged rotating assy and AFR or Dart heads will probably be around $6k

Jerry

[Z28pr0jekt]

Most of the guys have already done a l ot of those type improments---but, they are limited on cubes because the block will only go a little over 4 inches on the bore and a 4 in stroke is max---

with this project as an SHP block the bore will be 4.125 plus the usual oversizes allowing a reasonable 4.200 bore---not we are at 430 inches or so and you can use your standard LT components(water pump, a/c, alternator,exhaust). If you want to upgrade--AFR and Dart have some very good heads that will really respond to the larger bore size unshrouding the valves---camshaft choices are unlimited as are oil system options--but they are normal SBC varieties and are the mosr reasonably priced performance parts in the automotive world. The LT engines are limited by bore size, period---the fact that the opti has given people some problems is irrelavant!!!! The reverse cooling is a bonus and with the LT h2o pump it'll look stock for the person that wants to keep that appearance which seems to be 100% on these LTx forums. The block, internal balanced,forged rotating assy and AFR or Dart heads will probably be around $6k

Jerry

If you say so, but I have the feeling if I quote you on this, it likely wont be true.. I can go pull up figures for a WELL built 396 right now and I promise it isn't around 6000... Fastbird has about $10,000+ in his topend alone and thats just a 383

[Z8's]

$6K:jest:

[Z28pr0jekt]

$6K:jest:

EXACTLY

A good 383-396 forged rotating assembly will be at least $4,000... and if people are going to be paying for this big inch block, i would hope they wouldn't be throwing low end components in it.

[tomsws6]

actually 6k doesnt sound to bad

[Z28pr0jekt]

actually 6k doesnt sound to bad

It is highly unlikely it will only be 6000... heads alone are 1500-2000(unported)... rotating assembly ~4000... plus balancing, plus intake manifold etc etc

[JAKEJR]

I basically don't consider this an LT1 at all.. first of all if I were spending that kind of coin on a block, I sure as hell wouldn't put an opti on it..

Second.. I would imagine it would take ZOUNDS of work to get the clearances correct for lt1 heads... and even then you HAVE to have an aftermarket casting because even the baddest stock ported casting would not flow near enough for a motor that size.

Third.. the lt1 intake would never be able to handle enough air so you'd have to switch to a single plane intake anyways.

Fourth... the same headers? A 1 3/4" header simply would not do a motor like that justice.

Basically it is just a reverse flow big block.. which is great and all... but IMHO an LTx it is not

1: A rose by any other name . . . First design Optis got a bad rap, andmy belieft much of it was UNEARNED. but the second design seems to be holding up a lot better and, as you've noticed, some of the Big Boys have started making improved versions even now; MSD comes to mine.

2. There are some currently existing LT1 heads that flow as much or more than the performance heads that came on 454s off the assembly line. If you check out some AFR's LT1 227 offerings, you'll see flow numbers capable of well over 700-750 HP.

3. A guy named Bob Jones in CA ported a TPIS mini-ram which flowed very close to 400cfm with no turbulance. I suspect a vast improvement can be made in the LT4 or even the LT1 intake once you slice it open to get to the inside. That procedure is the recommended one anyway; slice and dice.

4. Don't think the aftermarket won't respond with the parts needed to make that engine breathe, don't they always. And, as I had to do when building a 434 L98 with 15 degree Brodix heads, custom headers were the order of the day.

5. Oh, there is no 5. LOL

I feel a two-piece rear main seal arrangement is better than one-piece anyway. GM probably only went to the 1-piece to address leak complaints. Isn't that why they went with center bolt valve covers too?

Once there's a demand, the after-market suppliers will rise to the bait like hungry trout. It happens virtually everytime a new engine configuration is introduced. It's the American way.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

[JAKEJR]

Shoot, I spent close to 10K on my 388 and all I do is drive it to the grocery store. I wouldn't have minded spending a couple more to have built a 468 instead.

The cost of the crank, rods, pistons, heads valvetrain, etc., would have been a virtual wash. Even if the cost was several hundred more it wouldn't have ruffled my feathers in the least.

Like Reher and Morrison often say, "There's no replacement for displacement".

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

[Z28pr0jekt]

You need to read a little more into what me and Clayton were talking about...

I never once said you couldn't get an aftermarket casting, the whole point was he was talking about using lt1 heads on it along with the lt1 intake and opti. A ported lt1 casting will not breathe enough for this motor. So you have to spend a few extra thousand to use aftermarket castings, and even then you may and probably will have to do more work to them to make them fit correctly.

The opti got a bad rap because it deserved it. It is susceptible to water, is unstable over 7000rpms, and is overall a bad design.

Yes you can port out the lt1 intake but it still wont be good enough for a 454, hell they're barely good enough for a 396.

The aftermarket will respond? It took edelbrock 15+ years to develop an intake manifold for the lt1 that is complete garbage, it took msd 15+ years to design an opti, which in itself had problems at first.

LT1 is old technology, fact is people don't generally want to put $15K+ into such old technology, when ~10K into an LSx can be a complete monster. I am in no way putting down the LT1 but new aftermarket support will not be typical.

Either way it is not an lt1, it is just a reverse flow bigblock made to run with a subpar distributor. The aftermarket blocks for LS1/6/2/3/a/b/v/ds/d/ are not called ls1's they are called warhawks or lsx's etc etc

Sure you can call this an ltx motor.. but is it an lt1? no. I LOVE the idea of doing this but once again, if I'm gonna spend the coin on a big bore block and such I sure as hell wont put an opti on it... why ruin a badass motor with such a handicap? It will just be a reverse flow big block plain and simple.

[JAKEJR]

You might be interested to know that in the very short time this issue has been posted on this and five or six other Forums, yours is a minority view. Of course, you're entitled to it, but so are they theirs. Most guys know "build it bigger" hence the ove-whelming popularity of 383s, 388s, 396s, 406s, 415s and 434s. Except for the 396, I've built them all and every guy asked "How much bigger can we go?"

I know from personal experience that when I was gathering parts to build my 388 LT1, I would have jumped through hoops to get a block like the one being considered.

I suggest you not get too hung up on what "name" it is. Are AFR's Eliminator LT1 heads 'LT1' heads or are they AFR Eliminators; same for cranks, pistons, rods, cams, on and on. None of them are "true" LT1 parts because they weren't installed on the assembly line. That's what I meant by "A rose by any other name. . ." to finish that ". . . smells as sweet". I've read this train of thought before like during the discussion of "When is a L98 no longer a L98?" When it gets a Mini-Ram, is it still a L98? Call it what you want. A rose . . . .

I've got 90,000 miles on my Opti and my son has 115,000 miles on his; we both have 96 Vettes. Now, lets talk about our batteries, alternators, tires, plug wires, etc. Parts break/wear-out and when they do, just replace them. Same with the Opti. Comes with the territory.

Only a hand-full of guys rev their LT1 engines to 7000 and those are most likely pure race engines which aren't driven on the street. To make power at 7000 - which is the only true justification to take an engine that high - requires such "radical" parts that the car wouldn't be streetable.

What to test it? Start a poll and ask how many guys rev their engines to 7000. Even the mid-8 quarter mile, 176 MPH roadster I use to drive I shifted at 7200 and that sucka was trailered where ever it went.

One of the beauties of increased displacement is you DON'T have to rev it to make outstanding power. The torque it makes eliminates the need for high RPMs to make the same power. Ever driven a Rodeck? If you have you know you don't need R's.

Speaking of Rodecks, I built one for a team in Chicago, 4.5"x4.5" and when we showed up at the track it drew crowds like you wouldn't believe. Made me feel like a Rock Star. LOL Can't put a price on the WOW! factor.

Anyway, this isn't getting us anywhere. You posted your views and I mine. So there's no need to contuinue to kick this around. The purpose of the post was to Gauge Interest.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

[Z28pr0jekt]

Sigh you just don't get it... someone saying this 4XX whatever ci block can be fully built for $6,000 is sadly mistaken, is it awesome someone will build a large cube block for the ltx, yes.. will it really be a complete longblock making zounds of power for $6,000? Not even close.

Ya know Z8 who chimed in earlier laughing at the 6k figure, yea well he knows what it takes to build sub 10 sec lt1s with under 400ci and he knows that the power it takes to do so doesn't come for $6000.

[86LT1]

that would be awesome to have a block like that available, I would def. consider purchasing one.

[IronOutlaw]

Will this block allow the LTx to play catch up to the Lsx? Or will this cost so much that the Lsx will still be the way to go.

[Jerry Clayton]

OK guys---let set you absolutely straight on a few issues-----

First--who the hell is Jerry Clayton?????Maybe I should let you do your own research on that so as you won't have to take my word for it----if needed I will update or expand on my background/history this evening after you look.

Second--who the hell is Richard Manskin and DART???? Isnt he the guy who used to take AMC heads and saw them apart and weld the top 3/4 of one to the bottom 3/4 of another????

Third---there was a limited number of big bore LT blocks made and they are rare and expensive------

The LT engine can't easily have the bore increased any significant amount.

All other aftermarket items for SBC are similar----cranks, rods, pistons, camshafts,oil pumps, bell housings, headers---the TWO (as in not ONE but TWO) differances are the optic and reverse cooling-----
You can bet any amount you have that if I was going to race one of these cars, I would have gone to a big bore GM sportsman or Rocket block in 1992----In fact, I did start down that path, but people kept buying my stuff and I never got to race the car before it was destroyed in a December traffic mishap.

Prices---We have in stock several DART SHP sbc,bbc,ford and have the Ford SHP on order. We have IN STOCK Callies internal balanced forged crank assys with Callies rods and Mahle pistons,pins and rings---This crank package is around $2000----however I would be glad to take anyones order for $4000 if they insist.

Clinder heads ready to bolt on--aprox 2k

Hopefully that as an SHP configueration this block would be reasonable weight and be less than $1500 .

So there you have it-----less than $6k for all the big bore stuff you'll need to convert the oem block car to a big bore 400+ cid !!!!!!!!!

You use your engine accessaries and exhaust-----for the other stuff

If you don't like the opti, you can install a distributor in the normal sbc location with a simple mod to the intake

If your still unhappy, then find an LS wreck and swap a high milage, piston slapping , oil sucking and you won't have an original set up (severely hurting the value of your car) and it also won't be anything special about it except you can add true duals as you redue the exhaust system----

[Transamman25]

Right on Jerry !


I think you will have people like Z28 anywhere you go , Guys who drive a LT car simply because that is all they have or could afford, got a good deal on- I myself own 7 Trans Am's and Firebirds (2 of which are LS Powered) And my 2 Favorite car's ? LT powered. I own a 468 BBC 3rd gen .. my fastest ride ? Just an LT1 ... The BS about it's no longer a LT1 ?? Go to the LTXShootout with one i bet you will not be turned away!

On a side note ... has anyone ever taken a warhawk block and put a stock intake,Ported stock heads in one ?? Hell i don't think so and if they did everyone would ask why.

[Jerry Clayton]

Oh I doubt that he drives an lt because its all he can afford-----but he is completely out to lunch about what things cost

[JPack]

Guy's I would take Jerry's advice an knowledge and maybe learn a few things. If you look into who he is and the things he has done in the drag racing community, you will understand a little more. He is why drag racing is what it is today. You ever run your cars at the top level and compete against the likes of Garlits etc.? If Jerry says he can build it for "$XXXX.XX" he can and it would out perform most anything out there and you would have more money in your pocket. That is the route I went and to say I am pleased at what he gave me would be an understatement for the money spent. I have learned a ton from this man and his son and personally want to thank him for that and what he is trying to do for the LTX guys.

[Z8's]

WOW!
So Jerry made drag racing what it is today?That is laughable.:laugh:I am 50 years old and grew up around drag racing in the Chicagoland area and don't remember him....I'm sorry. No disrespect Jerry!

All the talk about 4 or 5 other forums that are raving about this idea is nice but most are just TALK!!!!
If they truly wanted to build huge horsepower/torque setups they would have done it with what was available.WHERE ARE THEY?
There are only a handful of true LT1's that are doing it. If they are building just cruiser's or show car's what is the point of having it be an LT1?
Jpack....what kind of performance numbers has your car made? just curious because there are alot of reputable shops around that also are cost effective and make good reliable power.
Even in the LS circles the aftermarket blocks are not accepted in their race rules,it's just the way it is........The block is the foundation of your engine an LT1 is an LT1 a LS1 is an LS1 a DART is just that A DART ! Call me what you want but that is how it is. Bring this new engine block to the LTX Shoot out in a car and sure it may get to race but ONLY because we need car counts it will not be an LT1! This is just my opinion so don't kill me for it. I have spent many many many thousands of dollars to get the level of performance that I am at with a true LT1 and it just erks me that no one has ever stepped up and supported the LT1 platform.

[Jerry Clayton]

So it seems as if a couple people don't want to race against another car with a LT type engine---they must really hurt the feelings of the Mustang crowd----and then go pal around with the ricers.

[Z8's]

So it seems as if a couple people don't want to race against another car with a LT type engine---they must really hurt the feelings of the Mustang crowd----and then go pal around with the ricers.
What???
Build your "LT1" and line it up with my car.
I built my own car a true LT1 and was the first LT1 to run 8's in the 1/4 8.92 with a best mph of 159. My current setup is also a TRUE LT1 and will be the first to run in the 7's!!!!!! @3400+lbs .NEVER been afraid to line up with any car!!!! Go sniff some more nitro fumes.:rolleyes:

[Z28pr0jekt]

OK guys---let set you absolutely straight on a few issues-----

First--who the hell is Jerry Clayton?????Maybe I should let you do your own research on that so as you won't have to take my word for it----if needed I will update or expand on my background/history this evening after you look.

Second--who the hell is Richard Manskin and DART???? Isnt he the guy who used to take AMC heads and saw them apart and weld the top 3/4 of one to the bottom 3/4 of another????

Third---there was a limited number of big bore LT blocks made and they are rare and expensive------

The LT engine can't easily have the bore increased any significant amount.

All other aftermarket items for SBC are similar----cranks, rods, pistons, camshafts,oil pumps, bell housings, headers---the TWO (as in not ONE but TWO) differances are the optic and reverse cooling-----
You can bet any amount you have that if I was going to race one of these cars, I would have gone to a big bore GM sportsman or Rocket block in 1992----In fact, I did start down that path, but people kept buying my stuff and I never got to race the car before it was destroyed in a December traffic mishap.

Prices---We have in stock several DART SHP sbc,bbc,ford and have the Ford SHP on order. We have IN STOCK Callies internal balanced forged crank assys with Callies rods and Mahle pistons,pins and rings---This crank package is around $2000----however I would be glad to take anyones order for $4000 if they insist.

Clinder heads ready to bolt on--aprox 2k

Hopefully that as an SHP configueration this block would be reasonable weight and be less than $1500 .

So there you have it-----less than $6k for all the big bore stuff you'll need to convert the oem block car to a big bore 400+ cid !!!!!!!!!

You use your engine accessaries and exhaust-----for the other stuff

If you don't like the opti, you can install a distributor in the normal sbc location with a simple mod to the intake

If your still unhappy, then find an LS wreck and swap a high milage, piston slapping , oil sucking and you won't have an original set up (severely hurting the value of your car) and it also won't be anything special about it except you can add true duals as you redue the exhaust system----

I never doubted who you are or the abilities of whatever company will be doing this.

The fact is that lt1 heads and intake would be pointless on a motor like this. Opti is pointless on a motor like this.

So you're trying to tell me you sell a dragonslayer crank with forged rods and forged pistons for 2000? That's amazing, you seem to have the cheapest prices ever for forged callies components. A dragonslayer alone for a BB chevy is $1100-1800.

Now if you're talking callies compstar.. whoopie, sorry but I wouldn't be throwing compstar in a block like that.

You sure as heck could build a low quality forged motor but PLEASE dont advertise this out to be a great forged motor for 6000.


Right on Jerry !


I think you will have people like Z28 anywhere you go , Guys who drive a LT car simply because that is all they have or could afford, got a good deal on- I myself own 7 Trans Am's and Firebirds (2 of which are LS Powered) And my 2 Favorite car's ? LT powered. I own a 468 BBC 3rd gen .. my fastest ride ? Just an LT1 ... The BS about it's no longer a LT1 ?? Go to the LTXShootout with one i bet you will not be turned away!

On a side note ... has anyone ever taken a warhawk block and put a stock intake,Ported stock heads in one ?? Hell i don't think so and if they did everyone would ask why.

Actually I don't drive an LT1 because that's all I can afford.

Fact is I have more money in a stock headed and intaked forged 355 than he is claiming this whole thing would cost and mine is a budget build ;)

You all seem to be reading much further into my words than I have stated. Btw tell me what class that LTx shootout is going to let you run in with this block.


Once again, as I have stated at least twice already, I think this is a GREAT idea, but these people don't need to be lead into thinking they can build an absolute monster for 6000.

It can definitely make a chunk of a percentage more power than an LT1 block but that needs $$ to do so just as any big build would.

I'd like to see it come to existence, but I don't think it's going to be as cheap or as simple to bolt up heads to. I believe the heads would need a huge amount of work to the chambers on top of the actual price of the heads... and then when you take out that much material, what is left to the integrity of the head? I'd hate to have this monster ltx that blew a headgasket every other run.

[JPack]

WOW!
So Jerry made drag racing what it is today?That is laughable.:laugh:I am 50 years old and grew up around drag racing in the Chicagoland area and don't remember him....I'm sorry. No disrespect Jerry!

All the talk about 4 or 5 other forums that are raving about this idea is nice but most are just TALK!!!!
If they truly wanted to build huge horsepower/torque setups they would have done it with what was available.WHERE ARE THEY?
There are only a handful of true LT1's that are doing it. If they are building just cruiser's or show car's what is the point of having it be an LT1?
Jpack....what kind of performance numbers has your car made? just curious because there are alot of reputable shops around that also are cost effective and make good reliable power.
Even in the LS circles the aftermarket blocks are not accepted in their race rules,it's just the way it is........The block is the foundation of your engine an LT1 is an LT1 a LS1 is an LS1 a DART is just that A DART ! Call me what you want but that is how it is. Bring this new engine block to the LTX Shoot out in a car and sure it may get to race but ONLY because we need car counts it will not be an LT1! This is just my opinion so don't kill me for it. I have spent many many many thousands of dollars to get the level of performance that I am at with a true LT1 and it just erks me that no one has ever stepped up and supported the LT1 platform.

Wow, didn't know you were 50 :jest: (I'm not far behind you)
At your age you should remember the Keeling and Clayton California Charger. Maybe that will ring a bell from back in the 70's. He can post up all the books and interviews stating why I said what I did.

As for my performance numbers, track ready 492/541 and running detuned on the street. While not huge numbers, it satisfies my urges for my toy to play around with.

I respect all you have done with your car and records you have done. The amount of time and dollars you have into your car make my check book run and hide.

I can say though that the numbers and quality and one off ideas that come to fruition out of Jerry's shop are impressive. I have seen first hand in the many many hours I have spent there things that blew me away and had never even thought of.

Back on track to the thread at hand and not to steal away from why this is here. I am excited to see this happen and hope Jerry pulls this out with Dart. If it doesn't, I know Jerry has other options for someone to make it happen.

[Z28pr0jekt]

I'd be excited to see it happen but real world numbers need to be put out there with the quality of components going in it.. VRE sells a turnkey badass 383 with cnc'd heads/ported intake diamond pistons, some badass forged rods and the aforementioned dragonslayer crank for just under $10,000, I'd give this motor around 400whp with massive ability for either boost or a shitton of spray depending on what pistons you go with, and I limit it to around 400whp because it is just cnc'd stock heads/intake...

I don't see the 4xx motor beating that pricing using the same or comparable parts. Obviously VRE has a markup for the work involved and such but your company would have to also obviously right Jerry? Can't run a business without making money off a product.


I hope this thing comes out and the pricing I expect to be on par with any other big block build. I wouldn't even doubt that I would want one.. but I certainly wouldn't consider it an LT1 and I definitely wont have an opti or stock heads/intake on it.

Good luck :)

[Jerry Clayton]

Ryan--yes they are compstar forgings and will do everything needed in one of these engines---if you would wanta more advanced crank design we can do that but this is to be an reasonably priced deal--and the 6k isn't a complete engine---it is short block assy with forged components, internal balanced, 2 piece rear seal--you will need camshaft designed for your driving/uses!!!!

There is no need to do any chamber work on the cylinder heads and I see and haven't seen any head gasket problems ever that weren't owner induced

Z8---i was looking at your pics and nice work----but if it can be verified about the only thing TRUE LT1 thing I saw was the block---care to give a list of your TRUE oem parts

I also had started a post about my past but I made an edit and computer locked up---so if I wiped out your 30 pics, I apologise

As far as lining up along side of me

[Jerry Clayton]

Ryan

I wouldn't put an opti on it either and would use an non opti front cover

We are working hard at keeping costs down--an example---we can get 8 blocks on a pallet shipped for the same price as 2 or 3.

We order for stock 3 cranks and components at a time---we have Mahle made 30 sets of pistons to our specs and they are a weight controlled item on the shelf--
We can finish hone the blocks to std 4.125 size and ship same to next day(truck frt)

[Z28pr0jekt]

Ryan--yes they are compstar forgings and will do everything needed in one of these engines---if you would wanta more advanced crank design we can do that but this is to be an reasonably priced deal--and the 6k isn't a complete engine---it is short block assy with forged components, internal balanced, 2 piece rear seal--you will need camshaft designed for your driving/uses!!!!

There is no need to do any chamber work on the cylinder heads and I see and haven't seen any head gasket problems ever that weren't owner induced

Z8---i was looking at your pics and nice work----but if it can be verified about the only thing TRUE LT1 thing I saw was the block---care to give a list of your TRUE oem parts

I also had started a post about my past but I made an edit and computer locked up---so if I wiped out your 30 pics, I apologise

As far as lining up along side of me

I think what he means is it was built out of a true lt1, which would qualify under the rules of the LTxshootout... which if anything can quantify what equates to an actual LT1 it is their rules.

As for the shortblock, that makes sense now, but you were trying to tell me earlier that it would be $6,000 with heads

The block, internal balanced,forged rotating assy and AFR or Dart heads will probably be around $6k

Jerry

You definitely got ahead of yourself there.. because that figure for a BB longblock is VERY unlikely unless you're using hyperucraptic pistons, a cast crank, and crap rods.

Now compstar isn't bad or anything but it definitely isn't what this motor is deserving of. Compstar would be fine for a high end NA setup or a little bit of spray but if I ever thought about this block, as I will think of any other future motor, it would be built for boost and for a block like this I'd be using the better callies components. But that is also depending on the thickness of the cylinder walls, if they aren't meant for boost I'd end the thought process there.

[Z8's]

When the car ran in the 8's for the first time it was with the original heads and intake (GM LT4 intake and heads ) It has since been updated to AFR LT1 215 cc RR heads and a Super Victor intake .The gm castings are not strong enough(deck thickness) to handle the cylinder pressure's that the new engine need's to achive the goals we are looking for.
Good luck trying to get this project done, I'm sure there is a market for it just not a real big one.

[Jerry Clayton]

First-- my $6k number is projected selling price for block, internally balanced forged Callies Compstar crank,rods, Mahle flat top pistons,rings,pins, and bearings AND cylinder heads----no camshaft or engine accessories---this is for components for customers assembly---

You will need intake of your choice and a oil system for a 2 piece rear seal--

[Z28pr0jekt]

First-- my $6k number is projected selling price for block, internally balanced forged Callies Compstar crank,rods, Mahle flat top pistons,rings,pins, and bearings AND cylinder heads----no camshaft or engine accessories---this is for components for customers assembly---

You will need intake of your choice and a oil system for a 2 piece rear seal--

Gotcha, so this is balanced but not assembled? Alright well as I said before, good luck sir

[catchmyz]

I'm not doubting or bashing anyone's credibility, ability or for that matter ego, I'm not gonna get in a pissing match online, but this large displacement LT1 is never gonna get off the pages of this forum.

[joelster]

I think this is an amazing deal!

lol at people quabbling over the 6K price. ANY fully forged motor is going to be expensive, whether it's a 350/383, etc...

This block is PERFECT for a guy like me. I already have AFR 227's (paid under $1900), I already have a converted single plane intake with an elbow. There will be a nice market for something like this if the price stays around the $2000 mark for the block. Hell, it's at least $1000 to get a stock block set up for 4-bolt mains and all the other machining.

Oh, and it's still an LT1 block, irregardless of who makes it.

[Jerry Clayton]

If all the auto industry bailout wasn't happening we would get a GM part number for it and may undertake that anyway

[MeanGreen94Z]

wow you guys, yall need to cool it this went from being an intrest thread into a pissing match. chill and get back to topic. start a new thread or something for arguing the cost... this got a little out of hand

[joelster]

wow you guys, yall need to cool it this went from being an intrest thread into a pissing match. chill and get back to topic. start a new thread or something for arguing the cost... this got a little out of hand

x2 agreed.

If you don't want a big cube LT1, go build a 383, there's a million others out there.

[Jerry Clayton]

See the other thread on Big cube LTx motor