Considering going with E85 for my 396 build, thoughts?

[BrianEsser]

I'm curious if anyone here has converted their rides to E85? I'm in the planning stages for my 396 build and I am seriously considering going the E85 route. which includes bumping the compression to the 12.5:1 range and going with larger injectors and of course a custom tune to compensate for the bump in fuel required. I've talked to others who have done the swap and built their engines especially for E85 that the increase in power vs gas was well worth it. Especially with it's help in preventing detonation and lower combustion chamber temps.

The wives tales about lost mileage usually come from those running it in vehicles not specifically designed for it (i.e low compression engines with undersized fuel systems). Several who have done the swap have seen no more than a 2-3mpg drop. Well worth the 10-20% power increase vs gasoline and the ability to run much more timing, especially in high temp areas.

Thoughts anyone?

[JoeliusZ28]

its a good idea. I believe one of the local guys by me got another 20 hp out of his 383 running the corn fuel

[Grr]

very good idea, i ran my 76mm turbo'd LSx on e85 and i picked up around 130hp from just pump gas. The tuning is really easy, no different than gas really. Make sure you have dual pumps or the equivalent and 65# injectors. the 65s will go up to about 650whp on e85 easy enough.

[BrianEsser]

Thanks guys. I'm just wondering how high I could safely go with the compression before I start seeing negative effects (detonation)? Seems the lower combustion temps would mean with good timing control and proper quench I could get away with some decent compression. How much is too much of a good thing here? 12.5:1 - 13:1?

Also, what does nitrous require on a E85 tune? How are the gains compared to pump gas? I'm building my bottom end like a shithouse so I can spray it if I get a wild hair up my ass.

[The Engineer]

Along with your line of thought, I wonder if anyone has converter their factory LTX, PCM and EFI system to methanol alcohol for a race-only application?

I know the air-fuel ration for methanol is 6.42-1, therefore the injector size would be significant as-well-as the injector duty-cycle.

A very large number of traditional drag cars (carbed, or mechanical injection) use methanol.

WD

[Tony Shepherd]

I have been researching E85 for two years now. Warren do you know what the ideal air/fuel ratio for E85 is? Is it the same as pump gas? (13.2:1 air/fuel)?

[KissMyWhtSS]

I'd be worried about the availability.

E85 is a great fuel for performance applications. Higher octane, cheaper (though you do have a energy loss, which will result in less MPG)

[jakesz28]

Tony one problem most people don't realize is the octane range varies from the time of the year. There are quite a few people that had their stuff dialed in and picked up a new batch of fuel. Not realizing the octane change and burnt pistons. For you if you were going to buy it by the drum and check the octane and creep up on the tune with a new batch it would be fine. I just hope you have found that info.

Mike

[The Engineer]

If my math is correct, E85 calculates to an air-fuel ration of 8.82-1 (or 40% more ethanol over Gasoline with a 14.7-1 ratio). Here is some additional E85 information.

E85 is an alcohol fuel mixture that typically contains a mixture of up to 85% denatured fuel ethanol and gasoline or other hydrocarbon (HC) by volume. On an un-denatured basis, the ethanol component ranges from 70% to 83%.

E-85 ethanol is used in engines modified to accept higher concentrations of ethanol. Such flex-fuel vehicles (FFV) are designed to run on any mixture of gasoline or ethanol with up to 85% ethanol by volume. There are a few major differences between FFVs and non-FFVs. One is the elimination of bare magnesium, aluminum, and rubber parts in the fuel system. Another is that fuel pumps must be capable of operating with electrically conductive ethanol instead of non-conducting dielectric gasoline fuel.

Fuel injection control systems have a wider range of pulse widths to inject approximately 40% more fuel. E85 has an octane rating 105, which is higher than typical commercial gasoline mixtures (octane ratings of 85 to 98); however, it does not burn as efficiently in traditionally-manufactured internal-combustion engines. Additionally, E85 contains less energy per volume as compared to gasoline.

Warren

[Tony Shepherd]

Hum....good info here guys. I thought I could use my braided fuel lines? It says in Warrens info no rubber?

[Grr]

dont worry about the braided line. They say all that stuff and warn about aluminum line too, but there is no issues. Almost all braided line is alcohol/methanol resistant otherwise it would be pretty worthless on a race car. Now regular rubber gas line is another story, FI line is mostly compatible.
Gary

[paul95z]

Ive been looking into this as well. Subscribing.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

I have been contemplating trying E85 for about a year. Almost all of the big HP cars that were in the Dynomax Power to the Wheels challenge had been converted to E85. Andy Wix has tuned most of them and I ran into him in Dallas early this year. He says there is nothing to worry about running E85 in anything. Most if not all EFI cars/trucks can have the PCM modified to run E85 on the factory pump, lines, and injectors.

I have DFI on my car so in my mind this is a simple procedure. My thinking is I just need to go into my A/F table and adjust the numbers to reflect ~40% less than with gas. The VE table should be set, and the timing tables should be very safe. All this seems too good to be true and I have to be missing something....

I'm very interested in this so I am definately keeping an eye on this thread.

[paul95z]

My car is sitting pretty good to make this swap. I already have dual pumps, high compression etc.. I would need a bigger injector from what Ive been told. Im currently using 42# and have been told 60# would be a minimum for E85 and my set up. I havent talked to anybody who felt comfortable tuning it, and getting ahold of Ed hasnt been easy lately. I have tunercats and datamaster, just not that comfortable with it myself lol.

[FICINJECTORS]

can have the PCM modified to run E85 on the factory pump, lines, and injectors.

shenanigans!

I've worked with quite a few tuners swapping F/I cars to E85, and I promise, there is not a snowballs chance to use the stock injectors.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

shenanigans!

I've worked with quite a few tuners swapping F/I cars to E85, and I promise, there is not a snowballs chance to use the stock injectors.

I would think stock injectors would be tough also, unless they were strictly going to E85 because it's cheaper and not in a hi-perf application. For all out performance applications like most of us on here, I'm sure he would swap out stock injectors for larger.

FWIW, I have an E85 conversion kit in my office from a company called Intelligent Ethanol Systems (www.intelligentethanolsystems.com (http://www.intelligentethanolsystems.com)) that supposedly I could plug this thing in and run E85 in my 02 GMC. It's a product sample that they want us to try out but I am too sceptical to use it. Anyone ever heard of this company???

[FICINJECTORS]

I have not heard of it myself.

When it comes to the injectors the cars on E85 need roughly 30% more injector. If you do the math on 90% of factory cars using their advertised FWHP and their stock injector size, you will see at an 80% duty cycle most stock injectors are nearly maxxed on stock HP.

add another 30% to the equation and youll see that there is no way most stock injectors could keep up.

If you had 350HP and wanted to go to 455 you would need injectors too heh.

[Blubird]

since e85 is rated at 110 octane, wouldnt it burn hella fast ?

[Brandon]

since e85 is rated at 110 octane, wouldnt it burn hella fast ?
octane doesn't have to do with how fast the fuel burns. it only refers to the fuel's resistance to detonation (knock).

[BLOWNDFIZ]

since e85 is rated at 110 octane, wouldnt it burn hella fast ?

Just the contrary is true. 87 has a faster "burn" rate than 93. That is why 87 octane will pre-ignite and cause detonation.