Need some insight on stand alone engine management systems...

[popo8]

So Im wondering when the Impala inherits the camaros motor set up... I would like to upgrade the blower to utilize what the engine was built for. We built it to handle 15 to 20 lbs of boost.

I INSIST on keeping the opti on the car so 24x is not an option.

My turner that did the camaro to get the 602/540 stated that even with the obd1 conversion, they were at their limit with tuning it... so if I ever stepped up the boost I would need a stand alone for them to tune it.

IM NOT A TUNER... so I do not know the capabilities of the obd1 stock set up which the impala is also converted too. If my tuners tell me it can be done... then I will stay with the factory set up, but if what the tuner told me is true... I will look for suggestions for stand alone systems.
MoeHorsePower I would love to hear ur insight with this. Thinking something in the F series of blowers.


(And for now the impala will remain automatic, obviously with an upgrade from Cahall performance transmissions.

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[firebird_1995]

Holley efi is where it's at. You can still use the opti to trigger the coil

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[popo8]

Ok.. great start. Let me ask, Is it worth the money and hassle of wiring it in as compared to the effort to tune am obd1 setup.

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[CPT]

Larry, that trans is already a "Pro Race". The only thing we may want to upgrade is the output shaft to a billet one.

Frank

[harner]

I don't know what happened to the other thread, but I approve of this thread and your plans! Fast sedans FTW

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[popo8]

Larry, that trans is already a "Pro Race". The only thing we may want to upgrade is the output shaft to a billet one.

Frank

Ok... cool. And converter Im assuming?

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[popo8]

I don't know what happened to the other thread, but I approve of this thread and your plans! Fast sedans FTW

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Which other thread man?

Glad u approve. Lol.

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[SSlowBoat]

Ok... cool. And converter Im assuming?

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Yeah, youd have to go to a billet faced converter like osie went to with the anti balloon plate. I strongly approve this idea!!

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[harner]

Which other thread man?

Glad u approve. Lol.

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You tagged me in another thread but I think it was moved? I don't know but I approve. Also, +1 on the Holley standalone setup.

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[popo8]

You tagged me in another thread but I think it was moved? I don't know but I approve. Also, +1 on the Holley standalone setup.

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Ohhh... last post of this thread;

http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30588

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[popo8]

How difficult is the holley efi system to integrate?

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[CPT]

Larry, yes. We would get you a billet 9.5" converter for it.

[popo8]

Larry, yes. We would get you a billet 9.5" converter for it.
THANKU FRANK!!!

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[Injuneer]

Several people I know, plus myself have had good luck with the MoTeC line of ECU's. State of the art, and they can accept the Opti cam position sensor input, so you can keep the Opti and run 8 LSx coils. The ECU's work great with forced induction. Add to this the advantage that the guys at Second Street Speed in Perkasie, PA are authorized MoTeC installer/tuners, and have built and tuned successful 1,000+ HP FI LT1's.

http://www.motec.com/m1-series-overview/m1s-overview/

Then there are steering wheels available.....

http://veracitydata.com/vrd/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MDD-SW-Front-300x225.jpg

[popo8]

Several people I know, plus myself have had good luck with the MoTeC line of ECU's. State of the art, and they can accept the Opti cam position sensor input, so you can keep the Opti and run 8 LSx coils. The ECU's work great with forced induction. Add to this the advantage that the guys at Second Street Speed in Perkasie, PA are authorized MoTeC installer/tuners, and have built and tuned successful 1,000+ HP FI LT1's.

http://www.motec.com/m1-series-overview/m1s-overview/

Then there are steering wheels available.....

http://veracitydata.com/vrd/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MDD-SW-Front-300x225.jpg
What if i dont want to run ls coils. I really want it to be an opti run vehicle still.

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[firebird_1995]

You can use the opti low res signal as a crank trigger and still run the high voltage through it, but that's the extent of it. To my knowledge there is not an ecu on the market that uses both the high and low res signal from the opti.

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[popo8]

You can use the opti low res signal as a crank trigger and still run the high voltage through it, but that's the extent of it. To my knowledge there is not an ecu on the market that uses both the high and low res signal from the opti.

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What about the micro/mega squirts?

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[firebird_1995]

Unless you are planning on running sequential injection you don't need the high res signal. Most aftermarket ecu have sequential capability but few use it. You would just run batch-fire injection where it would fire one bank at a time.

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[firebird_1995]

What about the micro/mega squirts?

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I believe the megasquirt only uses the low res signal.

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[Injuneer]

The MoTeC uses both high and low res signals, and runs full sequential.

[SSlowBoat]

Several people I know, plus myself have had good luck with the MoTeC line of ECU's. State of the art, and they can accept the Opti cam position sensor input, so you can keep the Opti and run 8 LSx coils. The ECU's work great with forced induction. Add to this the advantage that the guys at Second Street Speed in Perkasie, PA are authorized MoTeC installer/tuners, and have built and tuned successful 1,000+ HP FI LT1's.

http://www.motec.com/m1-series-overview/m1s-overview/

Then there are steering wheels available.....

http://veracitydata.com/vrd/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MDD-SW-Front-300x225.jpg
I have been to second street, as they tuned a buddies kenne bell cobra. He had two boosted lt1 fbodies in the shop with full motec's. The one he had to move off the dyno, 396 solid roller with advanced inductions stuff. It was NASTY

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[Injuneer]

Nasty, as in f'd up, or nasty, as in big HP.

[popo8]

Nasty, as in f'd up, or nasty, as in big HP.
I think he means NASTY in the positive aspect.

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[popo8]

Ok... well back to part of my original question... can my car be tuned on the stock ob1 converted PCM with double the boost?

I would be more than happy to fly MoeHorsePower to PA to fine tune the car with the stock "ish" set up for the sake of saying its all still LT1/GM.

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[SSlowBoat]

Ok... well back to part of my original question... can my car be tuned on the stock ob1 converted PCM with double the boost?

I would be more than happy to fly MoeHorsePower to PA to fine tune the car with the stock "ish" set up for the sake of saying its all still LT1/GM.

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You got some other people that would help fund that trip too, dyno party!!!

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[firebird_1995]

Ok... well back to part of my original question... can my car be tuned on the stock ob1 converted PCM with double the boost?

I would be more than happy to fly MoeHorsePower to PA to fine tune the car with the stock "ish" set up for the sake of saying its all still LT1/GM.

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Yes it can be done

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[Fastbird]

Larry you're going to run into OBD1 computer limitations if you try to push it.

When I was running the FAST XFI on my car, I was still opti and single coil. I presume that's where you want to stay. Everything worked, even the two step feature of the XFI. The Holley systems will be the same way. Megasquirts are nice, cheap, but there's a learning curve and a lot of DIY involved.

Wiring in the XFI wasn't bad. Only about 30 wires cut off the PCM and spliced into the XFI piggyback harness I had. This will hold true to all aftermarket systems. You need the stock PCM intact to run the dash stuff unless you go full crazy and swap in aftermarket gauges in the dash too.

[SSlowBoat]

Larry you're going to run into OBD1 computer limitations if you try to push it.

When I was running the FAST XFI on my car, I was still opti and single coil. I presume that's where you want to stay. Everything worked, even the two step feature of the XFI. The Holley systems will be the same way. Megasquirts are nice, cheap, but there's a learning curve and a lot of DIY involved.

Wiring in the XFI wasn't bad. Only about 30 wires cut off the PCM and spliced into the XFI piggyback harness I had. This will hold true to all aftermarket systems. You need the stock PCM intact to run the dash stuff unless you go full crazy and swap in aftermarket gauges in the dash too.
Motec!! With the sexy display!!

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[MoeHorsePower]

Ok... well back to part of my original question... can my car be tuned on the stock ob1 converted PCM with double the boost?

I would be more than happy to fly MoeHorsePower to PA to fine tune the car with the stock "ish" set up for the sake of saying its all still LT1/GM.

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how much boost you looking to run.

[popo8]

You got some other people that would help fund that trip too, dyno party!!!

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Excellent...

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[popo8]

how much boost you looking to run.

Moe, with an f series blower on it... id like to see between 15 and 20 lbs...

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[popo8]

Motec!! With the sexy display!!

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Lol... i do dig it... but if i can stay stock dash amd cluster id like to keep it that way.

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[popo8]

Larry you're going to run into OBD1 computer limitations if you try to push it.

When I was running the FAST XFI on my car, I was still opti and single coil. I presume that's where you want to stay. Everything worked, even the two step feature of the XFI. The Holley systems will be the same way. Megasquirts are nice, cheap, but there's a learning curve and a lot of DIY involved.

Wiring in the XFI wasn't bad. Only about 30 wires cut off the PCM and spliced into the XFI piggyback harness I had. This will hold true to all aftermarket systems. You need the stock PCM intact to run the dash stuff unless you go full crazy and swap in aftermarket gauges in the dash too.
Ok... so ur suggestion is the xfi stuff?

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[popo8]

Yes it can be done

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If so... that would be my number one choice... just to make the point.

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[SSlowBoat]

If so... that would be my number one choice... just to make the point.

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I believe jeff green is using a fast system and retaining opti

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[popo8]

I believe jeff green is using a fast system and retaining opti

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But what u quoted is about no aftermarket system.

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[SSlowBoat]

But what u quoted is about no aftermarket system.

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Ive been looking all morning to find his setup, i know he had a billet block made for 1500+whp BUT was keeping opti and waterpump provisions

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[96z28SideSwype]

Ive been looking all morning to find his setup, i know he had a billet block made for 1500+whp BUT was keeping opti and waterpump provisions

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http://www.superchevy.com/features/ghtp-1108-1996-chevy-impala/ I found this

[SSlowBoat]

http://www.superchevy.com/features/ghtp-1108-1996-chevy-impala/ I found this

thats the old setup. he had a billet block made

[96z28SideSwype]

thats the old setup. he had a billet block made
Oh I thought it was that because it said custom 434 Aluminum LT1 , shit thats still badass lol

[MoeHorsePower]

Ok... so ur suggestion is the xfi stuff?

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The only limitations is if you have to spin the motor beyond 7000 RPM's and I doubt you will have to especially with boost, as you know I have been running stock OBDI pcm with boost since 1997 when everyone told me that it couldn't be done, I made 722 RWHP supercharged on 15 lbs and now I am at 710 RWHP turbo at only 12 lbs, I plan to up to 15-16 lbs here real soon, so to your question, can your run your stock OBDI PCM, YES!

[popo8]

The only limitations is if you have to spin the motor beyond 7000 RPM's and I doubt you will have to especially with boost, as you know I have been running stock OBDI pcm with boost since 1997 when everyone told me that it couldn't be done, I made 722 RWHP supercharged on 15 lbs and now I am at 710 RWHP turbo at only 12 lbs, I plan to up to 15-16 lbs here real soon, so to your question, can your run your stock OBDI PCM, YES!
Then that is what I want... and to be honest... I run a 6500 chip in my box anyways... so 7k will never be am issie for me. When its all together and mechamically 100%... get ready to pack ur bags Moe.

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[MoeHorsePower]

Just let me know and Ill be there..

[popo8]

Just let me know and Ill be there..
Deal!!!

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[firebird_1995]

If so... that would be my number one choice... just to make the point.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
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I know moe could do it, but with leaving a margin of error in for safety I don't know how far off you would be from where you are now. You will probably be maxing out the maf and need a speed density tune. I feel like that's where there's more power to be had with the aftermarket. The ability of wideband O2 correction allows for more aggressive fueling/ignition strategy. I don't know what motec costs but holley hp efi is 1500 with the harness.

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[SSlowBoat]

I know moe could do it, but with leaving a margin of error in for safety I don't know how far off you would be from where you are now. You will probably be maxing out the maf and need a speed density tune. I feel like that's where there's more power to be had with the aftermarket. The ability of wideband O2 correction allows for more aggressive fueling/ignition strategy. I don't know what motec costs but holley hp efi is 1500 with the harness.

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We max the maf with 8psi in osies procharged camaro right about 4500 rpm Lol, after that its all power enrichment and watching the wideband

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[firebird_1995]

We max the maf with 8psi in osies procharged camaro right about 4500 rpm Lol, after that its all power enrichment and watching the wideband

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I don't know about you but I've never been really good at paying attention to a wideband and keeping a car running straight down the track at the same time. I understand what Larry wants to do and I respect the fact that he wants to show that the stock distributor and PCM are capable, I guess I've broken enough shit that I don't care to risk it anymore.Just my opinion

[SSlowBoat]

I don't know about you but I've never been really good at paying attention to a wideband and keeping a car running straight down the track at the same time. I understand what Larry wants to do and I respect the fact that he wants to show that the stock distributor and PCM are capable, I guess I've broken enough shit that I don't care to risk it anymore.Just my opinion
No i understand what you are saying. I dont watch wideband, only when logging i have it logging into datamaster. Honestly, i dont think the hot fuzz is gonna race it, or is he?

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[firebird_1995]

[QUOTE=Tubby Z28;472894 Honestly, i dont think the hot fuzz is gonna race it, or is he?

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I don't see any other reason he'd want to turn it up

[popo8]

Well if Moe did it with his set up... Im confident he could do it with mine.

Im not sure what u mean that i wont be any further than where I am now...

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[popo8]

No i understand what you are saying. I dont watch wideband, only when logging i have it logging into datamaster. Honestly, i dont think the hot fuzz is gonna race it, or is he?

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Itll make a few passes...

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[firebird_1995]

Well if Moe did it with his set up... Im confident he could do it with mine.

Im not sure what u mean that i wont be any further than where I am now...

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I didn't say you WON'T be any further than where you are now, there's always room for improvement. What I was saying is I don't know HOW MUCH is left on the plate based on where you are now. If I recall correctly you had a high end tuner spend a pretty good amount of time on it. I was thinking he had it a little rich considering the boost you were running so there's some power left there, but you're switching from a t56 to auto trans so you're going to be giving up a bit there. All in all I guess it's going to come down to how much more boost you're planning on putting to it and how hard you plan on leaning on it.

[popo8]

I didn't say you WON'T be any further than where you are now, there's always room for improvement. What I was saying is I don't know HOW MUCH is left on the plate based on where you are now. If I recall correctly you had a high end tuner spend a pretty good amount of time on it. I was thinking he had it a little rich considering the boost you were running so there's some power left there, but you're switching from a t56 to auto trans so you're going to be giving up a bit there. All in all I guess it's going to come down to how much more boost you're planning on putting to it and how hard you plan on leaning on it.
But did u consider the part where I said I was replacing the p1sc with am F series blower?

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[firebird_1995]

I did. How much boost are you running now?

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[popo8]

I did. How much boost are you running now?

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Just under 10 lbs.

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[Camaro96]

What was the reason the tuner stopped with at 10lb?


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[popo8]

What was the reason the tuner stopped with at 10lb?


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He didnt... that was a maxed out P1SC. With the big 227 eliminator heads... that was all the P1 had even with the 3.40 pulley on it.

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[Camaro96]

[emoji106] sounds like an upgrade maybe in order to get it to turn the psi goal being looked @.

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[popo8]

[emoji106] sounds like an upgrade maybe in order to get it to turn the psi goal being looked @.

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Lol... thats what this thread is about.

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[Camaro96]

Lol... thats what this thread is about.

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I understand that I was thinking that if your looking for 14 pounds that you may be able to do it with the d1. But stepping up to the F1 would give room to grow in the future.

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[firebird_1995]

For some reason I thought you were making around 14#. I figured that the first 3 or so pounds of boost were going to make up for the additional loss from switching to an automatic and the only net gain to the tires was going to be how much more you planned on leaning on it. My bad. You've already got the big block snout on the crank too so you should be able to twist as much boost as the bottom end can handle. How fast do you want to go?

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[popo8]

I understand that I was thinking that if your looking for 14 pounds that you may be able to do it with the d1. But stepping up to the F1 would give room to grow in the future.

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Oh yeah... i def need the bigger blower. I really would like to be close to 20#. And those heads flow so much its hard to see the boost (boost is a measurement of restriction) cause it flows so well.

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[Camaro96]

Oh yeah... i def need the bigger blower. I really would like to be close to 20#. And those heads flow so much its hard to see the boost (boost is a measurement of restriction) cause it flows so well.

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20# in the impala wow. I know that the stock block will handle it but distortion of the cylinder walls. So could there be an aftermarket block. ( if it gets off the ground) is the white elephant

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[popo8]

20# in the impala wow. I know that the stock block will handle it but distortion of the cylinder walls. So could there be an aftermarket block. ( if it gets off the ground) is the white elephant

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Im not sure whats in thw future... since I dont race and am hardly ever on it for long periods of time... i think the dyno tuning ans maybe a couple track passes should allow it to survive.

We will see. We built her for the boost... idk where the block will fail.

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[SSlowBoat]

Im not sure whats in thw future... since I dont race and am hardly ever on it for long periods of time... i think the dyno tuning ans maybe a couple track passes should allow it to survive.

We will see. We built her for the boost... idk where the block will fail.

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bores will distort, probably wont be an issue. blackbirds distorted, car doesnt smoke. it only smoked from something else.

[popo8]

bores will distort, probably wont be an issue. blackbirds distorted, car doesnt smoke. it only smoked from something else.
Lol... tires.

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[Jeff Green]

I believe jeff green is using a fast system and retaining opti

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No I'm not. It the factory OBD computer using the complete Opti. Too many on here state they still have the OPTI when all they are really using is the rotor and the cap, not the optical sensor or the GM computer. My entire ignition system is GM except a MSD 6 box.

My car is a street car, that's why it weighs over 4500 pounds. It's not a race car even if it will run with them. It still is running on unleaded gas because of the OBD computer as I don't lock the BLM's.

No FAST system here and never will be:) Lesson here is you can make near 2000HP using the GM stuff.

[popo8]

No I'm not. It the factory OBD computer using the complete Opti. Too many on here state they still have the OPTI when all they are really using is the rotor and the cap, not the optical sensor or the GM computer. My entire ignition system is GM except a MSD 6 box.

My car is a street car, that's why it weighs over 4500 pounds. It's not a race car even if it will run with them. It still is running on unleaded gas because of the OBD computer as I don't lock the BLM's.

No FAST system here and never will be:) Lesson here is you can make near 2000HP using the GM stuff.
Ill never make that kind of hp... but i admire and will follow u in KEEPING it ALL OPTI!

THANKU.

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[SSlowBoat]

No I'm not. It the factory OBD computer using the complete Opti. Too many on here state they still have the OPTI when all they are really using is the rotor and the cap, not the optical sensor or the GM computer. My entire ignition system is GM except a MSD 6 box.

My car is a street car, that's why it weighs over 4500 pounds. It's not a race car even if it will run with them. It still is running on unleaded gas because of the OBD computer as I don't lock the BLM's.

No FAST system here and never will be:) Lesson here is you can make near 2000HP using the GM stuff.
Holy shit, the God himself....has spoken.....I have idolized your car over the years. Searched far and wide on old forum links for details of what you did/are doing. Do you have any updates?

Thank you for the insight, and hope, for all us opti diehards

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[popo8]

No I'm not. It the factory OBD computer using the complete Opti. Too many on here state they still have the OPTI when all they are really using is the rotor and the cap, not the optical sensor or the GM computer. My entire ignition system is GM except a MSD 6 box.

My car is a street car, that's why it weighs over 4500 pounds. It's not a race car even if it will run with them. It still is running on unleaded gas because of the OBD computer as I don't lock the BLM's.

No FAST system here and never will be:) Lesson here is you can make near 2000HP using the GM stuff.
Which car is urs?

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[SSlowBoat]

Which car is urs?

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A really nasty impala ss

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[popo8]

A really nasty impala ss

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Any pics?

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[Jeff Green]

Holy shit, the God himself....has spoken.....I have idolized your car over the years. Searched far and wide on old forum links for details of what you did/are doing. Do you have any updates?

Thank you for the insight, and hope, for all us opti diehards

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Thanks but this god has a lot of issues getting where I want to be:). I wish I could have kept the 4L60 E and the ten bolt rearend in it but 9.2 at 157 MPH was all I could get. If I ramped up the power at all it would do was cut the teeth off the ring gear so just no way to get to the 8's with that setup unless you stripped the car and that was not an option.

Last year was just a big test and tune. Even the LTX shootout was that but learned even then. That was the first time the tune was close enough to pull the wheels off the ground and because it did it at a 30 MPH rolling start I knew I was at a different level than the past. It now won't leave without the wheels in the air even with a lot still wrong. The blow off valve was left loose, by a 1/4", at Atlanta and it still pulled the wheels and even almost went a 5 in the 1/8 at only 90 MPH because I quit at the 330 mark. When you have a 2.10 first gear with a 3.50 rear gear and 31.5 tall tires you would think launching at only 3000 stall and only 60% power wouldn't even pull the tires in a car this heavy at almost 4600 pounds and most of that on the nose. That also tells you a lot about how much torque your engine is making. Bad passes can still make you smile when you see numbers that should have been on good passes:). It even shook the tires on one test pass and still almost was in the 1.2's at the 60 foot. Big different between wheel hop and tire shake!!

It's getting closer!! Just don't forget how heavy this car is because it still has everything in it that came from the factory, even the ABS and air bags are there and everything works. I give most of the other cars I race a second and 1/2 head start because of my car weighing 1500 to 2000 pounds more than theirs. So a low 8 or a high 7 in my car and it would be a high 6 in the stuff I'm racing against. So think about that, an LT you could put in a 2800 pound car and run 6's yet drive it around like it was just a car. If my Impala were only a Camero:)

No more posts as not trying to high jack some ones thread.

[firebird_1995]

Larry, Jeff's car was the one with the billet block at the shootout last year. I believe on one pass it threw the blower belt off on the big end and gave us all a scare if I recall correctly

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[popo8]

Larry, Jeff's car was the one with the billet block at the shootout last year. I believe on one pass it threw the blower belt off on the big end and gave us all a scare if I recall correctly

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Ohhh ok. Now I remember.

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