Who's running aftermarket ECU's??

[Fire67]

Well just like the title states, but with one stipulation... Who's running their aftermarket engine management system with an Opti Spark distributor? I'm talking people with FAST, Accel, BS3, etc.

[Tony Shepherd]

What are you trying to find out?

[The SRZ]

I am. A few others are as well. I think OutlawZ is running too but I'm not sure.

[windsofthor]

I would like to goto an aftermarket/standalone engine management, but am totally lost when it comes to circuitry. :-(

Interested in hearing some of these setups.

[Fire67]

What are you trying to find out?

I'm trying to see how many people are setup this way and looking for a CHEAP alternative to step up to Sequential injection. (Since opti users with these systems are currently stuck with running Bank to Bank)

I cannot yet go into any further detail though, as I will need to speak with the powers that be first. Just trying to 'feel the water'.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

I do (Gen VII DFI). I'm pretty content with the bank to bank but may feel like running sequential in the future. I don't think it's that hard really to set up a crank trigger to run sequential but I'd be more interested in hearing more about your idea.

[Tony Shepherd]

To run sequential you need a crank sensor input and a cam sensor input. I am running a crank trigger and just installed a rear mount dist with cam pickup to run sequential. I was running bank to bank last year and the year before.

It is better to run sequential if you can for individual cylinder tuning capabilities.

For you with opti's I can see this is a problem. Would need someway to have crank and cam signals.

[Fire67]

To run sequential you need a crank sensor input and a cam sensor input. I am running a crank trigger and just installed a rear mount dist with cam pickup to run sequential. I was running bank to bank last year and the year before.

It is better to run sequential if you can for individual cylinder tuning capabilities.

For you with opti's I can see this is a problem. Would need someway to have crank and cam signals.

I have a way to cure this without having to add a crank trigger and cam sync! I'm going to send a pm to a mod this evening asking for permission to offer this to people.

My intention with this thread is to determine the available pool of people I can approach for Beta testing. I need a tester for each model of GM optisparks as I have designed and setup manufacturing for those.
This solution could even be adapted to MSD opti's, but I have not had my hands on one to try it.

[Tony Shepherd]

I have a way to cure this without having to add a crank trigger and cam sync! I'm going to send a pm to a mod this evening asking for permission to offer this to people.

My intention with this thread is to determine the available pool of people I can approach for Beta testing. I need a tester for each model of GM optisparks as I have designed and setup manufacturing for those.
This solution could even be adapted to MSD opti's, but I have not had my hands on one to try it.

Justin PM me the specifics if you don't mind. You know I can keep a secret.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

Justin PM me the specifics if you don't mind. You know I can keep a secret.

I have no interest in spreading the specifics around, but I would like to hear more about it as well. Feel free to PM them to me as well. I'll keep everything to myself.:secret:

[The SRZ]

Interesting you bring this up. I know of one person running a FAST w/ an opti in sequential mode. He said it fired right up and runs pretty decent and he changed/added nothing. All he said he did was switch parameters from opti to sequential mode in the setup mode file. I really don't know how true it is but I may just try it myself tonight when I get home.

Tuning would be tremendous in terms of accuracy over B2B no doubt but I'd be interested in reading up on your proposal when it's presented.

[Fire67]

Interesting you bring this up. I know of one person running a FAST w/ an opti in sequential mode. He said it fired right up and runs pretty decent and he changed/added nothing. All he said he did was switch parameters from opti to sequential mode in the setup mode file. I really don't know how true it is but I may just try it myself tonight when I get home.

Tuning would be tremendous in terms of accuracy over B2B no doubt but I'd be interested in reading up on your proposal when it's presented.

While they will fire right up in some cases, it's really a matter of chance. This is because the stock Opti cannot sync the cam position to the ECU and causes the ECU to randomly 'guess' which cylinder is starting the firing order. Once in a while you'll be lucky and it will run fine. Other times it will run like crap. In these situations, the fuel will be injected at the wrong time and puddle on the valve while waiting for it to open.

[Fire67]

Tony and Brandon, PM's sent.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

Since I'm only familiar with DFI and somewhat the Commander 950 systems I was wondering on the FAST if it allows you to tell the PCM which injectors to fire in bank to bank? What I mean is on the Gen VII I do run bank to bank, but technically it's batch fire. I have the pcm set to fire 1843 first, then 6572 second. And DFI allows you to adjust individual cylinder trims even in batch fire mode. I'm just curious if XFI has this same feature.

[Fire67]

Since I'm only familiar with DFI and somewhat the Commander 950 systems I was wondering on the FAST if it allows you to tell the PCM which injectors to fire in bank to bank? What I mean is on the Gen VII I do run bank to bank, but technically it's batch fire. I have the pcm set to fire 1843 first, then 6572 second. And DFI allows you to adjust individual cylinder trims even in batch fire mode. I'm just curious if XFI has this same feature.

I'm pretty sure that when it comes to the aftermarket ECU's, bank to bank is just another way of saying 'batch fire'. I think it depends on which company makes the ECU whether they call it one or the other. You tell them all which injectors fire with each batch. And I'm pretty sure that you can adjust the fueling per cylinder as well with the FAST. I havent personally tried, as I have no way to monitor A/F ratios or EGT's on a cylinder to cylinder basis. What I know for sure, is that without the cam sync you cannot adjust timing for individual cylinders.

My main reason for wanting to run sequential injection is largely due to my injector size. With these 95's, my rails literally do not hold enough volume to supply all 4 injectors at once. Since my rails are fed in parallel from the rear, my front 2 injectors on each rail get starved for fuel. Essentially causing my rear cylinders to run richer than my front cylinders. Enough so that I was seeing evidence of detonation on the front 4 cylinders and over rich condition on the rear 4 cylinders.

[Fastbird]

My main reason for wanting to run sequential injection is largely due to my injector size. With these 95's, my rails literally do not hold enough volume to supply all 4 injectors at once. Since my rails are fed in parallel from the rear, my front 2 injectors on each rail get starved for fuel. Essentially causing my rear cylinders to run richer than my front cylinders. Enough so that I was seeing evidence of detonation on the front 4 cylinders and over rich condition on the rear 4 cylinders.

:face_shocked: Glad I caught this as I'll be running 84's or 95's myself. I'm running a 95+ vented opti........would be interested in the beta testing for this.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

My main reason for wanting to run sequential injection is largely due to my injector size. With these 95's, my rails literally do not hold enough volume to supply all 4 injectors at once. Since my rails are fed in parallel from the rear, my front 2 injectors on each rail get starved for fuel. Essentially causing my rear cylinders to run richer than my front cylinders. Enough so that I was seeing evidence of detonation on the front 4 cylinders and over rich condition on the rear 4 cylinders.

I think we may have touched this before but what kind of fuel pressure are you running? You probably see where I'm going but if your pressure is really high then you could be losing some volume (volume decreases as pressure increases). I'm running 36psi (vacuum line disconnected) which keeps my pulse width at an idle longer and the 75's actually idle better than the old 48's.

I know this has nothing to do with the orignal topic, but it's a trick that I learned when Job Spetter initially tuned my car. So many people think they need sky high fuel pressure when quite possibly just the opposite is true.

[Fire67]

My fuel pressure is currently 40psi base (no vacum, no boost pressure) then it will go as high as 58psi depending on pulley combo and the resulting boost pressure.

When I have an 8psi pulley combo on the car, I did notice that lowering the base fuel pressure helped with idle tremendously. But I still get into enough fuel consumption at 8psi that it starves cylinders even with an Aeromotive Eliminator pump.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

My fuel pressure is currently 40psi base (no vacum, no boost pressure) then it will go as high as 58psi depending on pulley combo and the resulting boost pressure.

When I have an 8psi pulley combo on the car, I did notice that lowering the base fuel pressure helped with idle tremendously. But I still get into enough fuel consumption at 8psi that it starves cylinders even with an Aeromotive Eliminator pump.

Damn now that you bring this up it does seem my front plugs are typically "cleaner" than the back. I'm going to have to do some more investigating. I do run a knock sensor and have never had any show up on data logs (other than false knock from exhaust rattling during some bad wheel hop) so I guess that's good.

[Fire67]

Damn now that you bring this up it does seem my front plugs are typically "cleaner" than the back. I'm going to have to do some more investigating. I do run a knock sensor and have never had any show up on data logs (other than false knock from exhaust rattling during some bad wheel hop) so I guess that's good.

Your probably within and acceptable spread from cylinder to cylinder. With my 95's it was far too much. And fuel trims in the ECU could not correct for it.

[Fire67]

Just an update:
I've been getting bids from several companies on production of my parts. They are varying widely, but the companies offer different benefits in precision and consistancy. I'm waiting on 3 more quotes and I'll be able to decide who I'd like to go with. Once that is done, I'll be ready to start a new thread on here showcasing my product and soliciting Beta testers.

For the Beta run, I'll need 1 tester for each of the available opti-spark distributors. So 93-94 GM, 93-94 MSD, 95-97 GM, and 95-97 MSD. For the MSD guys, I will need to have the MSD distributor sent to me, I will then adapt my design and install the parts prior to sending it back to you. I intend to be setup as a Vendor here in advance of soliciting testers. So when I make the new thread, I will be able to provide full product details and pricing.

[Fire67]

Final update before offering Beta testing units...

Great news today! I recieved 3 more quotes on parts manufacturing and the prices are right were they need to be. I WILL be able to get Beta units out with the only cost to the testers being shipping! My only conditions being that a few tests be performed using tools built-in with the engine management system being run and a timing light, then the results reported back to me in a timely manner. When final production models are made, they will be provided to the testers at cost if their specific model needed revisions.

I'm swamped with work this week, but will hopefully be able to nail down some of the last details by this weekend. I will then solicit for Beta testers via a new thread.

[MeanGreen94Z]

im running DFI on my new build (will be done soon) and im pretty interested in this :)

[Fire67]

What opti are you planning to run?

[MeanGreen94Z]

GMPP 95^ vented :)

anyone know how the hell to hook up the stock gauges with the DFI? anyway i might start a new thread when it comes time to do that

[BLOWNDFIZ]

anyone know how the hell to hook up the stock gauges with the DFI? anyway i might start a new thread when it comes time to do that

Yeah, I have my stock gauges working with the DFI. The only real issues are the tach and speedo. I left the factory PCM in the car for cruise, fuel pump relay, VSS, and so I could use a hypertech to adjust the speedo for the gear change. The tach we were worried about working but was able to wire it into the MSD digital 6 and it works fine.

Once you get closer to wiring it up let me know and I'll PM you some better details.

[The SRZ]

Damn now that you bring this up it does seem my front plugs are typically "cleaner" than the back. I'm going to have to do some more investigating. I do run a knock sensor and have never had any show up on data logs (other than false knock from exhaust rattling during some bad wheel hop) so I guess that's good.

Well I just pulled a set of plugs off and it's even across the board in terms of burn. I'm running 96's. NGK's gapped @ .028.


Final update before offering Beta testing units...

Great news today! I recieved 3 more quotes on parts manufacturing and the prices are right were they need to be. I WILL be able to get Beta units out with the only cost to the testers being shipping! My only conditions being that a few tests be performed using tools built-in with the engine management system being run and a timing light, then the results reported back to me in a timely manner. When final production models are made, they will be provided to the testers at cost if their specific model needed revisions.

I'm swamped with work this week, but will hopefully be able to nail down some of the last details by this weekend. I will then solicit for Beta testers via a new thread.

Can't wait to see the final results w/ this. Hopefully once I'm back from my dirt duty there will be plenty of positive results w/ varying ECU's.

[Fire67]

Anyone willing to donate a 93-94 opti? Just needs to have a good optical sensor for my mockup purposes.

SRZ, I noticed you are in FL as well. Where is "PCB"? Im in Port Charlotte.

[MeanGreen94Z]

i have one thats good all through :( but dont know if i really wanna donate it lol... any incentive cause it only has like 10K and cost me around 425 but in all honesty i wouldnt worry about doing the 92-94 in MSD or GM, you cant run a double roller with those, which when you swap to an aftermarket ECU you have exceded the strength of the stock chain, just a thought... but im sure most will agree with me :), but either way ill try to assist you

[Fire67]

i have one thats good all through :( but dont know if i really wanna donate it lol... any incentive cause it only has like 10K and cost me around 425 but in all honesty i wouldnt worry about doing the 92-94 in MSD or GM, you cant run a double roller with those, which when you swap to an aftermarket ECU you have exceded the strength of the stock chain, just a thought... but im sure most will agree with me :), but either way ill try to assist you

You have a very good point... Although I do have a design going for one, just need a good housing and sensor to mock up on an engine and take some angular measurements. I did my initial measurements off of salvageable parts from a broken opti. I may well put it off untill I see some demand.

For informational purposes anyway, could anyone tell me if there is a difference in the timing chain (specifically the upper sprocket) for a 93-94 car vs a 95-97 car? I had a buddy donate a 93 timing cover, and my plan was to install it on my stock 96 shortblock with a good distributor housing to take my measurements. Since the cam to distributor relationship is critical for my dimensions, I'm wondering if I'll need anything else other than this cover and a distributor to mock things up on my shortblock.

[The SRZ]

SRZ, I noticed you are in FL as well. Where is "PCB"? Im in Port Charlotte.

Fire67, I'm in Panama CIty.

[MeanGreen94Z]

the only diff is that the cam gear for the 93-94 has a splined center for the splined opti drive shaft, where the 95^ has the pin that drives the opti. the early opti is the shitter of the 90's lol

[MeanGreen94Z]

Yeah, I have my stock gauges working with the DFI. The only real issues are the tach and speedo. I left the factory PCM in the car for cruise, fuel pump relay, VSS, and so I could use a hypertech to adjust the speedo for the gear change. The tach we were worried about working but was able to wire it into the MSD digital 6 and it works fine.

Once you get closer to wiring it up let me know and I'll PM you some better details.
think that dakota digital box could be made to work so i can delete the stock PCM?all the rest just need to be piggy backed into the system right?

[The SRZ]

think that dakota digital box could be made to work so i can delete the stock PCM?all the rest just need to be piggy backed into the system right?

I run the Dakota digital box but I kept my stk pcm so it runs the fuel pumps, vats etc. I suppose it could be done but just requires more work.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

^^^I'm with "The SRZ". It's simpler to just keep the facotry PCM in there to serve the basic creature functions, etc.

[Fire67]

I have my stock gauges working with the exception of speedo and tach. I do not have the stock pcm in place at all. The speedo is just not connected anymore. The tach is connected to the points output of the XFI box, but does not work accurately. It accelerates faster than the motor actually is. Must need some sort of filtering for the signal.

Anyway, quit hijacking my thread!!!! Lol

[Fire67]

the only diff is that the cam gear for the 93-94 has a splined center for the splined opti drive shaft, where the 95^ has the pin that drives the opti. the early opti is the shitter of the 90's lol

So I would need the timing set, timing cover, and opti to do my mockup on this 96 shortblock... Well, Im definitely gonna stay away from that unless someone ABSOLUTELY wants one and is willing to provide the parts needed to do mockup.

Looks like I will only need to Beta test the newer designs for now. I can do the testing on a GM opti with a FAST XFI system. I dont believe that it will be important to test this on a BS3 or Accel because from what I can tell they all require the same crank and cam pulses (1st crank pulse at 50* BTDC, cam pulse at least 60* BTDC). If this is not the case with BS3 or Accel ECU's please enlighten me.

As long as Im correct on the above, I will only need 3 Beta testers. 2 running an MSD opti and the 3rd running a GM opti. That way I'll have test results from 2 different cars for each design. Doing it this way would pretty much point out any discrepancies in test results so that they can be addressed accordingly.

[MeanGreen94Z]

so how much are we looking at for this? im willing to do it as the car will be getting finished a LOT sooner than i had originally planned.

[Fire67]

How soon are we talking about?

Looks like I'll be footing the bill for the products to Beta testers. I may need to ask them to pay shipping, but I'm not 100% sure on that yet. The main requirement would be that beta testers be able to perform several tests and report back to me in a timely manner.
I just got my hands on an MSD opti for measurements and such. As soon as Im confident that my design will work for these as well, I will post up a new thread soliciting Beta testers and spilling the beans on what I have going here.

[MeanGreen94Z]

motor will be gettign put together next week, and cam should be here by the end of then, bolt everything on and order little shit i keep forgetting and i say mid or the end of march. i had originally planned on finishing by may but o well

[Fire67]

Sounds like your well ahead of schedule. What ECU are you running?

Now that it's Friday and its ok for me to stay up late, Im thinking of pulling this MSD opti apart so that I can get my measurements... That way I can send out both of these .dxf files and get something cut.

[MeanGreen94Z]

Sounds like your well ahead of schedule. What ECU are you running?

Now that it's Friday and its ok for me to stay up late, Im thinking of pulling this MSD opti apart so that I can get my measurements... That way I can send out both of these .dxf files and get something cut.
I'm running accel DFI gen 7 :)

[Fire67]

I'm running accel DFI gen 7 :)

I just read back through all the posts to see which opti you are running and noticed that you already answered that question :|

Either way, I've got most of my measurements done with the MSD opti over the weekend. Still need to do some adjustments due to a different optical sensor in these units, but I'm very close.

Fastbird, you had expressed interest in Beta testing as well... What ECU / Opti combo are you running? And how long untill you are ready to have your car running again? (I know the turbo kit just shipped out, but have no clue what your timeframe is looking like)

[MeanGreen94Z]

ok are you gonna need to run a CPS with this?

[Fire67]

ok are you gonna need to run a CPS with this?

Nope! When Im done with your opti you will not need anything else. Just install, change a few settings in the ECU and your done.

[MeanGreen94Z]

SWEET!well I'm looking forward to it :)

[Fire67]

Update, I now have everything laid out for the MSD opti. Just gotta do a mock-up with some home-made parts to confirm a few of my measurements. Also, Since my design requires changes to the Opti harness that would come with the aftermarket ECU... I'm gathering info to be able to provide a new harness with the product. I've confirmed that the actual opti harness (plugs into opti at one end, and into the main harness at the other) is the same for Accel DFI and FAST XFI. Just need to confirm for the BS3 harness.

Any BS3 users wanna email me a pic of their Optispark adapter harness?

[Fire67]

have a questions about useing an stand alone ECU, when useing one that has its own built in MAP sensor, should you upgrade the factory one to be able to see the full amount of boost?

Usually they 'come with' rather than have them actually Built-In with the ECU itself. Either way, your most likely replacing the factory one alltogether.

[Fire67]

but if it came with one built in, would you get the stock one to match?

Do me a favor and start a new thread. List in your first post some more specific details. Specifically, the ECU your speaking of, whether it comes with a new wiring harness or not, which sensors it comes with (built in or otherwise), and details about your application. Like the power adder of choice, boost level intended, etc.

Do that and I will be glad to help anyway I can. This thread was not meant to deal with the topic you are referring to, so discussing your setup in here is not appropriate for keeping information easy to find and organized. I look forward to seeing YOUR thread so we can discuss things in detail.

[MeanGreen94Z]

when you gonna have this stuff ready to be tested?

[Fire67]

I've just about given up on sourcing parts for a new opti adapter harness. As the connector body for the opti is very expensive to get. My usual source has to special order them and will only do it if I order 240+ connector housings. There is no way in hell I'd ever need that many.

So I'm thinking of providing terminals and wire so that you can add the circuits needed to your existing harness.

To answer your question MeanGreen, I'm basically only waiting on my income tax return to hit the bank... Once it does I'll get my order out to the laser cutters and start letting everyone know.