2016 Shootout Rules and Date open discussion

[firebird_1995]

This is where we would like to see everyone voice their opinion on any rule/class changes they feel that are needed to continue to keep the event going as well as bring in more participants. Another issue that has been expressed is the heat on Labor Day weekend. If you think a different date would work better for you, please voice your opinion here. We are listening!

[Ryan Stout]

Late fall or spring would be cool, literally.

Also I still want to discuss why a carb penalty in modpa is 200lbs.

[firebird_1995]

Late fall or spring would be cool, literally.

Also I still want to discuss why a carb penalty in modpa is 200lbs.
The main reason the carb carries a penalty actually has nothing to do with the carb, so much as the fact that you're not using the opti and stock pcm. The rpm ceiling is higher on a conventional distributor setup vs an opti

[shownomercy]

Perhaps early fall or a evening event would be nice.

Drop the street part to extreme Street ;)

Oh and can I request a more scenic cruise next year for true Street? Lol

[96LT1355Z28]

I like night racing but I also like the post event parking lot party. Unfortunately we can't have both without a multi day event. If I had to choose I'd go with a different date for better weather over a night race. I don't have any specific date in mind. The earlier it is the more sketchy the weather and less time there is for cars to get assembled and tested. The later it is the hotter it is and more cars have broken and people are out of money from vacations, etc. I'll be there either way, any location! The event went as close to on time and can be (pretty much perfect) but maybe a little stricter policy on calls to the lanes. I heard the announcer call the same class several times and the cars in the lanes running after that class were sitting and waiting. Not a huge deal but when it's 90+ and your in in the lanes strapped in, helmet, neck brace, gloves, and multi-layer pants/jacket on it can get frustrating.

[firebird_1995]

We noticed the same thing on class callouts Josh and spoke about it. It will be addressed in the drivers meeting next year.

[blackbirdws6]

As said, later in the year would be more comfortable for everyone. Perhaps sometime in late September or early October. Perhaps some classes should have ET thresholds. For example, if you run under 9.00, this would restrict you from certain classes to keep it competitive for others.

Is this the time to also comment about a potential location change?

[firebird_1995]

You can post anything you wish

[Fastbird]

Stay at BG! They're good to us!

[BLK95-Z]

I wasn't racing but the track prep looked to be pretty good compared to years past. Even in the heat the fast guys were making full runs for the most part. I love the BG location but I might be a bit biased since its in my home state :)

[Dan]

For next year, keep it after July 19 so I can come.

Remove sun visor requirements for the street class. Forgot which one it was. I don't have any and don't intend to have any.

[joelster]

It always used to be Labor Day weekend to allow the long-haulers an extra day to get home. It makes sense to hold it on that weekend. You start taking chances when you hold out an extra month, gambling on cooler weather. The guys with 12+ hour rides have to leave on Sunday and hope that they don't encounter any issues. My first shootout, I blew a trailer tire that shredded the fender. I finally got back on the road hours later, and then hit a downpour and construction in PA. I didn't roll into my house until around 10pm. Having that extra day off is well worth it. As for the heat, deal with it. Everyone has to run in it, everyone will be running slower. Nobody has an advantage.

[Ryan Stout]

The main reason the carb carries a penalty actually has nothing to do with the carb, so much as the fact that you're not using the opti and stock pcm. The rpm ceiling is higher on a conventional distributor setup vs an opti
My 24x has has a higher cieling than an opti also. But a carb is 200lbs vs a 24x at 100. I'd like to see em both at 100, or even meet in the middle at 150.

[dawdaw]

It always used to be Labor Day weekend to allow the long-haulers an extra day to get home. It makes sense to hold it on that weekend. You start taking chances when you hold out an extra month, gambling on cooler weather. The guys with 12+ hour rides have to leave on Sunday and hope that they don't encounter any issues. My first shootout, I blew a trailer tire that shredded the fender. I finally got back on the road hours later, and then hit a downpour and construction in PA. I didn't roll into my house until around 10pm. Having that extra day off is well worth it. As for the heat, deal with it. Everyone has to run in it, everyone will be running slower. Nobody has an advantage.

On the same note a lot of guys don't show because they have plans with the family that weekend . Also it falls on the yb Nats and any nhra guys don't show because indy is that weekend .

But you make all valid points

[SexyTransAm]

Yea ya might get a few guys that run the nhra us Nats if it was on a different weekens. I just left and it blows me away how many still run a lt1
This guy just won a stocker class today
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q170/SexyTransAm/20150907_144121_zpsnik6fqry.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/SexyTransAm/media/20150907_144121_zpsnik6fqry.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q170/SexyTransAm/20150907_144114_zpstfns4tee.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/SexyTransAm/media/20150907_144114_zpstfns4tee.jpg.html)

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[firebird_1995]

Yea ya might get a few guys that run the nhra us Nats if it was on a different weekens. I just left and it blows me away how many still run a lt1
This guy just won a stocker class today
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q170/SexyTransAm/20150907_144121_zpsnik6fqry.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/SexyTransAm/media/20150907_144121_zpsnik6fqry.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q170/SexyTransAm/20150907_144114_zpstfns4tee.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/SexyTransAm/media/20150907_144114_zpstfns4tee.jpg.html)

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Is that gump?

[dawdaw]

That's kyle Ratcliff.

Gump is retired

[dawdaw]

I almost didn't make it this year due to the holiday. Everyone took it off for work and I'm low man on the totem pole so I worked 4am to 5pm Friday and hauled from 7pm to 430 am to make the race . Maybe a few low seniority guys like myself didn't Show because the holiday weekend because of work. I know my one buddy couldn't go because of that same reason.

Just some food for thought

[dawdaw]

Is that gump?

That car is bad ass and then some. It's a 98 fire bird formula and it Flys!

[Camaro96]

Starting discussion for the 2016 LTX shootout date, time, and, place. I would like to put the question out there how many people run in nhra event at indenapollis? That would attend the shootout if it was held on a different weekend?

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[waltsfastz]

+1 on the Et limit on classes. I dont have a lot of dogs in this race since I couldnt run mine, but still needs discussing. As for waiting later. If Bowling green is an option for next year dont base the weather on the time of year. Next labor day it could be 70 or 105. This coming weekend is suppose to be mid 70s.

[Ryan Stout]

+1 on the Et limit on classes. I dont have a lot of dogs in this race since I couldnt run mine, but still needs discussing. As for waiting later. If Bowling green is an option for next year dont base the weather on the time of year. Next labor day it could be 70 or 105. This coming weekend is suppose to be mid 70s.
ET limit on classes, I like that.

I'd run both events if I could, but would pick the shootout if I had to.

I vote to have it in the fall time. Cooler temps and don't have to worry about rain like the spring time.

[firebird_1995]

Starting discussion for the 2016 LTX shootout date, time, and, place. I would like to put the question out there how many people run in nhra event at indenapollis? That would attend the shootout if it was held on a different weekend?

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I don't know that it's a question that can answered honestly. I guess the easier question to ask is how many WOULDN'T come if it was on a different date.
The reason it's being considered is because many that attended, and several veterans that come every year, have mentioned that the heat is getting harder and harder to overcome.

[Camaro96]

Staying at BG is a great thought. What other tracks could be as accommodating to the LTX shootout that can be considered.

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[firebird_1995]

If you impose et limits you would essentially have an index class, correct? I know it was axed a few years ago in favor of the true street class. Is an index class something that people want to see again

[shownomercy]

If you impose et limits you would essentially have an index class, correct? I know it was axed a few years ago in favor of the true street class. Is an index class something that people want to see again

Do not impose ET limits, just try to have people put themselves in classes that they should be. I don't think I wouldn't come if I knew the class was covered but it certainly puts a damper on things when someone runs away with a class.

IMO, and I have only been to one so I am a n00b, but the event isn't about winning, its about the people and getting some cool cars together for a weekend of chatting/racing/good times. So, people should just try to place their car in classes they feel it will be competitive in. Accidents happen with new build cars sure, and that will happen, but intentionally trying to sweep all the classes is not in the sport of the event. Chasing records should be in outlaw class, sooo ya. ;)

[firebird_1995]

I know what car you're referring to and we are going to check with STS on equivalent sizing of rear mount systems to help level the playing fields.

[NightTrain66]

I can see valid points made by all about the date and Joelster has a great view oin the other side.

If possible maybe a poll to get an idea whe that would possibly lose compared to who it doesn't effect.

I will be there regardless so its not effecting me. The cooler weather and lower ET's would be nice but if that is gonna effect several members from even showing up I can see keeping it that weekend.

I know that Jeff Stark had the opinion in the past that he wanted it this weekend but mentioned this weekend that he is willing for it to be later.

If he has to vote 9not that he is not cooking in the heat he might change his mind again but as of Saturday about 4 PM when loading uop after the Shooitout he was all for it being later.

Can there be a poll created for this subject?

Registered drivers from this/previous year or actual drivers that will potentially be there should have there vote mean more than a spectater like myself.

Lloyd

[shownomercy]

Regardless of car's performances, I am pretty sure I was seeing things by the end of the day in that heat :lol:

[SexyTransAm]

No

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[SexyTransAm]

Is that gump?
No

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[SexyTransAm]

That car is bad ass and then some. It's a 98 fire bird formula and it Flys!
He won with a 10.60

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[popo8]

Stay at BG! They're good to us!
+1

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[popo8]

I think we have 2 many classes with the limited number of participants. Lets consolodate some.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[popo8]

Also Fastbird and I were discussing this... but the shootout website could be incorporated into this forum, bringing everything together. I believe meissen could verify that we could offer the shootout coordinators their own section, which could accomodate information... registration, shootout swag sales... etc.

Would keep me from having to duplicate whats on the other site...

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[joelster]

I doubt there were any cars at the YB Nats that were debating about coming to the LTX Shootout. How many LTX cars run at the the YB Nats? Maybe 1? There are plenty of LT1 powered Stockers running around because (for the time being) the LT1 cars are very competitive as far as how much hp they rate them at and the race weight. Most of the competitive LT1 Stockers can dip into the 10.50's in good air. In the heat most of them are 10.70's+. The elite ones (like Ratcliff) are 10.30's and they'd rather run for a Wally than a Golden Opti. Every one of the LT1 Stockers would fall into Mod N/A, and they'd be giving up cubic inches, intake manifold selection, cylinder head selection, etc, etc. Only a few would show up, and even then, they wouldn't run well against a stacked field, if guys like Mike V, Taner, and Brady showed up. So moving it to accommodate the NHRA guys might be a moot point.

[shownomercy]

Also Fastbird and I were discussing this... but the shootout website could be incorporated into this forum, bringing everything together. I believe meissen could verify that we could offer the shootout coordinators their own section, which could accomodate information... registration, shootout swag sales... etc.

Would keep me from having to duplicate whats on the other site...

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

While I agree this would be cool, I feel that its a step in the wrong direction. Don't get me wrong this site does wonders for LTX stuff and shooutout but the shootout needs to be across the web not just centered around one site. The shootout needs to get out there and what not. IDK how, but thats my thought.

[popo8]

It still would be... just hosted t he through our vb.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[dawdaw]

I doubt there were any cars at the YB Nats that were debating about coming to the LTX Shootout. How many LTX cars run at the the YB Nats? Maybe 1? There are plenty of LT1 powered Stockers running around because (for the time being) the LT1 cars are very competitive as far as how much hp they rate them at and the race weight. Most of the competitive LT1 Stockers can dip into the 10.50's in good air. In the heat most of them are 10.70's+. The elite ones (like Ratcliff) are 10.30's and they'd rather run for a Wally than a Golden Opti. Every one of the LT1 Stockers would fall into Mod N/A, and they'd be giving up cubic inches, intake manifold selection, cylinder head selection, etc, etc. Only a few would show up, and even then, they wouldn't run well against a stacked field, if guys like Mike V, Taner, and Brady showed up. So moving it to accommodate the NHRA guys might be a moot point.
Still a few cars none the less. A couple guys said they would be interested in going but it falls on the nationals . If moving the shootout to a different date didn't affect no one it would just be a plus .

I could care less either way . I feel that there would be more guys that can't show because it's on a holiday weekend then guys that would attend from yb Nats and nhra race

Curious Are you ever going to bring your car again ?

[dawdaw]

I doubt there were any cars at the YB Nats that were debating about coming to the LTX Shootout. How many LTX cars run at the the YB Nats? Maybe 1? There are plenty of LT1 powered Stockers running around because (for the time being) the LT1 cars are very competitive as far as how much hp they rate them at and the race weight. Most of the competitive LT1 Stockers can dip into the 10.50's in good air. In the heat most of them are 10.70's+. The elite ones (like Ratcliff) are 10.30's and they'd rather run for a Wally than a Golden Opti. Every one of the LT1 Stockers would fall into Mod N/A, and they'd be giving up cubic inches, intake manifold selection, cylinder head selection, etc, etc. Only a few would show up, and even then, they wouldn't run well against a stacked field, if guys like Mike V, Taner, and Brady showed up. So moving it to accommodate the NHRA guys might be a moot point.

And as far as your comment goes about they wouldn't show to be competitive . I'd disagree. It's more of a fun race and I'm sure you know that because you have attended one. It's taken serious but on a very light level. Comrodarery and getting to race everyone with different combos is fun.. a vast Majority of guys are not that hell bent on being number one in a fun event

[joelster]

And as far as your comment goes about they wouldn't show to be competitive . I'd disagree. It's more of a fun race and I'm sure you know that because you have attended one. It's taken serious but on a very light level. Comrodarery and getting to race everyone with different combos is fun.. a vast Majority of guys are not that hell bent on being number one in a fun event

My point is that there are a lot of LT1 Stockers out there, and if they see the rules list that puts them in Mod N/A, and they see that their little 355 is going up against a 396 with 235cc ports and a single plane, they might not even think about coming. You'd be very surprised at the number of veteran NHRA/IHRA LT1 guys that have never heard of the LTX Shootout. As popular as it seems among us, it is still relatively unknown outside of our world. Gump is one of the faster cars and in 2012 it was running 10.80's with the hurricane breathing down our necks. Mike was running 10.0's, Carlos 10.20's, me 10.40's, Larry 10.50's. Granted he could holeshot our asses, but he's giving up 100+hp.

What "could" be a better idea would be to have a class just for them to run heads up, and any of them that want to also run Mod N/A could also do so. I'd love to see a field of 8-10 wheelstanding stockers.

And yes, I have plans to attend again.

[waltsfastz]

Do not impose ET limits, just try to have people put themselves in classes that they should be. I don't think I wouldn't come if I knew the class was covered but it certainly puts a damper on things when someone runs away with a class.

IMO, and I have only been to one so I am a n00b, but the event isn't about winning, its about the people and getting some cool cars together for a weekend of chatting/racing/good times. So, people should just try to place their car in classes they feel it will be competitive in. Accidents happen with new build cars sure, and that will happen, but intentionally trying to sweep all the classes is not in the sport of the event. Chasing records should be in outlaw class, sooo ya. ;)

I agree,
And as far as cars there I hope to be at the track more this coming summer to put in PR work to try to get local guys to come ( If it is at beech Bend again). Like everyone else 10 years ago there were LT1 cars all over Kentucky. Now there are still some but not near as many

[Fastbird]

While I agree this would be cool, I feel that its a step in the wrong direction. Don't get me wrong this site does wonders for LTX stuff and shooutout but the shootout needs to be across the web not just centered around one site. The shootout needs to get out there and what not. IDK how, but thats my thought.

I don't. It's a limited world we live in, and splitting up between two sites just thins everything out. If the shootout site and the forum here consolidated, it could all be co located making things a lot easier on someone looking to get more info. They'd come here, see the forum and get some of that community experience and hopefully be drawn in by that vs the shootout site where it's pretty much race info, registration info, rules, etc only without the community feel to it. Besides that, this site and the shootout have been essentially synonymous with each other since the sites inception save for a last year.

[meissen]

Just let me know what you guys want if you decide to integrate and I can definitely make it happen.

[gump]

The LTX Shootout is still my all time favorite event. I really hate that I missed it again this year. I have not retired. I have retired the silver Formula that I brought to five of these shootouts (Gump). That car is "one-of-one" and is waiting a mild restoration. The reason that I have missed the last two shootouts is that I have had two COPOs at Indy.

I have managed to collect a lot of parts to build a good shootout motor. I do not like the weight penalty that has been added for aftermarket EFI systems. I like small cubic inch motors and would be at a huge dissadvantage to the strokers. I will run them heads-up at the same weight all day long.

Bowling Green has been a great venue.

[dawdaw]

gump

do you think any nhra guys like kyle ratcliff, ed wright, etc would show to this event if it didn't fall on indy's race.

[gump]

I really can't answer that. There are still a bunch of LT1s running Stock Eliminator. I'm not sure what would draw them to this event.

[SexyTransAm]

I'm going To message kyle tonight. We talked a little at Indy. I'll see what he thinks

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[SexyTransAm]

So here is a question. I know kyle Ratcliff is not running a factory lt1 block. It's a world block. Not sure bout other stocker guys but where would that put him at outlaw?

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[firebird_1995]

So here is a question. I know kyle Ratcliff is not running a factory lt1 block. It's a world block. Not sure bout other stocker guys but where would that put him at outlaw?

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I would have to initially say that anything other than a production block would be limited to outlaw, and even then I think it would have to fit some certain criteria to be allowed, but I'm just speaking on my own behalf here.

[SexyTransAm]

He was running an optispark an lt1 intake and I'm pretty sure they are limited to stock lightly worked heads and only 355 cubic inch. I'm really not sure why he was running an aftermarket block

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[firebird_1995]

Yea I'm not sure what the advantage would be to an aftermarket block in that scenario. I'm curious about the rules for stock eliminator. Where can I find them?

[firebird_1995]

Can there be a poll created for this subject?


Lloyd

Created poll

[shownomercy]

Voted for hope and change!

[SexyTransAm]

Think u have to buy an nhra rule book. Or u might be able to find a pdf of last year's for free

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[gump]

The blueprint specs. are on NHRA.com under competition. The cylinder head volumes and piston/rod specs. are under accepted products.

[BIG CAT]

If enough of the nhra guys will commit to showing up. How about having a separate class for them with the same rules as nhra?

[SexyTransAm]

I'm Goin to guess we would need to get on some kinda nhra / stocker fourm to talk with many at a time

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[firebird_1995]

In the little but of reading i did on the approved stock eliminator parts, the main thing I'm seeing that is different from the street stock class is the use of aftermarket ecu. How feasible would it be to have the stock eliminator guys be able to use the aftermarket ecu and compete in street stock? What would it take to level the playing field? Or are the 2 classes still too far off from being able to run together...

[SexyTransAm]

I think those two classes are worlds apart from each other

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[NightTrain66]

I guess a poll is too simple but if the options are

1 I WILL bring my car regardless of date

2 I WILL bring my car if its on a different weekend

3 I WILL NOT bring my car on a different weekend

HELL, I don't know, just what ever helps the car count. I will be there regardless.

As far as Super Stockers . . . . . If (and that's a big IF) there could be wheel standing SS cars there banging gears in a class by themselves in a few years I would be willing to pay 2-5 entry fees at the next Shootout to get them here. Even if it starts as an exhibition class and no charge for them if 1-2 show up. That might get them t show up. . . .????

If there is an SS class with more cars I can pay the registration fee on a few to get ball rolling if that helps . . . .

Lloyd

[adam85]

Ed has said on tech before if it was on a different date then indy he might go.

[joelster]

In the little but of reading i did on the approved stock eliminator parts, the main thing I'm seeing that is different from the street stock class is the use of aftermarket ecu. How feasible would it be to have the stock eliminator guys be able to use the aftermarket ecu and compete in street stock? What would it take to level the playing field? Or are the 2 classes still too far off from being able to run together...

Kyle has said before his LT1 car is roughly 530 at the crank. That's WAYYYYYYYYYYYY out of Street Stock league. The appeal for them to come to the shootout would be that they could run all-out heads up. They don't get a chance to do that too often. At an event like Indy they are bracket racing, unless they run another car of the same class, then it's heads up. Even when they run another car of the same class, they don't want to go too fast. It's a complicated process, but if one combo is consistently running way under its index at an event, NHRA adds hp to the engine rating. gump can chime in with more specifics.

Money talks! I'm sure if by some miracle you could come up with a sweet payout, you could persuade a bunch of them to come on over. Hypothetically speaking here, but a winner take all purse of say $xxxx would get them talking for sure.

Who wants to donate?

[popo8]

"Sweet" Payouts are difficult since the event is so small. Sponsorship money and parts prizes come close to covering costs for the rental etc... plus swag... trophies... etc.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[firebird_1995]

To put it in perspective, it takes about 5 entries for a class to break even with a $150 winner and $75 runner up payout. In order to offer a $1000 winner and $250 runner up payout we would have to get 25 cars registered @ $50 a piece.

[Badhawk]

I can see valid points made by all about the date and Joelster has a great view oin the other side.

If possible maybe a poll to get an idea whe that would possibly lose compared to who it doesn't effect.

I will be there regardless so its not effecting me. The cooler weather and lower ET's would be nice but if that is gonna effect several members from even showing up I can see keeping it that weekend.

I know that Jeff Stark had the opinion in the past that he wanted it this weekend but mentioned this weekend that he is willing for it to be later.

If he has to vote 9not that he is not cooking in the heat he might change his mind again but as of Saturday about 4 PM when loading uop after the Shooitout he was all for it being later.

Can there be a poll created for this subject?

Registered drivers from this/previous year or actual drivers that will potentially be there should have there vote mean more than a spectater like myself.

Lloyd


I sure did Lloyd, Joel has a point about the extra day it sure does help I broke down on the way home this year alternator took a dump. but the heat has been brutal the last couple years in KY. I'm going to do my best to be there either way.

[dawdaw]

Question. My buddy Bryan thought it would be a decent thing to run the event as half a drag race half a meet and great for lt1 cars. Kind of like super Chevy does . May drag in another small group of guys ? What's your thoughts on that ? His argument on it was that there a lot of guys that don't drag race there cars but love to cruise and show off there car . It still would be predicated on racing.

Just trying to throw out a fresh idea

[dawdaw]

I sure did Lloyd, Joel has a point about the extra day it sure does help I broke down on the way home this year alternator took a dump. but the heat has been brutal the last couple years in KY. I'm going to do my best to be there either way.

Damn jeff that sucks . I blew a pinion seal our on the way home and that was a nightmare

[firebird_1995]

Question. My buddy Bryan thought it would be a decent thing to run the event as half a drag race half a meet and great for lt1 cars. Kind of like super Chevy does . May drag in another small group of guys ? What's your thoughts on that ? His argument on it was that there a lot of guys that don't drag race there cars but love to cruise and show off there car . It still would be predicated on racing.

Just trying to throw out a fresh idea

I'm sure if enough people where interested there could be a cruise done before or after the car show on Friday.

[Badhawk]

Damn jeff that sucks . I blew a pinion seal our on the way home and that was a nightmare


Kyle, it gave us a little warning before it took the dump airconditioning quit working guage said it wasn't charging got off the highway and found a autozone and the truck died right there changed it in the parking lot so wasn't to bad.

[joelster]

To put it in perspective, it takes about 5 entries for a class to break even with a $150 winner and $75 runner up payout. In order to offer a $1000 winner and $250 runner up payout we would have to get 25 cars registered @ $50 a piece.

Oh I have no doubt you guys don't run the event to pad your wallet. Every penny and then some goes right back into running the event. I was simply saying a hypothetical case there. Money can do anything! A Wally to an NHRA guy is like a Super Bowl ring. Hard to get those guys to pass up that particular event. Indy is like their #1 event of the year. A win there is the highest you can get.

[popo8]

Kyle, it gave us a little warning before it took the dump airconditioning quit working guage said it wasn't charging got off the highway and found a autozone and the truck died right there changed it in the parking lot so wasn't to bad.
Great news u made it to a place to get u rolling again.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[NightTrain66]

Not sure if I saw Gump post in this thread but when you view "poll results" Gump has voted.

I have not voted since I will be there regardless and would rather have people vote with the date effecting their attendance and did not want my vote to skew any decision made.

Lloyd

[popo8]

For the record, I am not going to vote on the WHEN, because I'm down for whatever is best for the majority. YES, it is hot as balls when we hold the event, and cooler air would be good... BUT at the same time, the long weekend is convenient for many (I take off a total of 2 weeks, so that does not effect me either).

[96LT1355Z28]

Not sure if I saw Gump post in this thread but when you view "poll results" Gump has voted.

I have not voted since I will be there regardless and would rather have people vote with the date effecting their attendance and did not want my vote to skew any decision made.

Lloyd


For the record, I am not going to vote on the WHEN, because I'm down for whatever is best for the majority. YES, it is hot as balls when we hold the event, and cooler air would be good... BUT at the same time, the long weekend is convenient for many (I take off a total of 2 weeks, so that does not effect me either).

X3 here

[Badhawk]

I also did not vote thinking the same thing that I would work around the other people but I do think cooler air would be nice.

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[dawdaw]

I'd be there regardless either way but voted just because I hate hot weather .

[ZOHAN]

Funny how everyone was so pissed we moved it a month after labor day last year, and now labor day is too hot and it should be moved. I still agree a little later hoping for cool weather is a good idea. Granted im not driving home the 20hrs like the NY guys and wanting an extra day to drive home, but my drive home is from BG is 12-13... and i work weekends, so im taking off thurs, fri, sat, and sun for the event. So hooray i get an extra day to drive home...

It always used to be Labor Day weekend to allow the long-haulers an extra day to get home. It makes sense to hold it on that weekend. You start taking chances when you hold out an extra month, gambling on cooler weather. The guys with 12+ hour rides have to leave on Sunday and hope that they don't encounter any issues. My first shootout, I blew a trailer tire that shredded the fender. I finally got back on the road hours later, and then hit a downpour and construction in PA. I didn't roll into my house until around 10pm. Having that extra day off is well worth it. As for the heat, deal with it. Everyone has to run in it, everyone will be running slower. Nobody has an advantage.
Aaaactually, it stared out as a spring event and moved to labor day when it got moved to BG cause it took longer making new arrangements. (Or so i heard)


+1 on the Et limit on classes. I dont have a lot of dogs in this race since I couldnt run mine, but still needs discussing. As for waiting later. If Bowling green is an option for next year dont base the weather on the time of year. Next labor day it could be 70 or 105. This coming weekend is suppose to be mid 70s.

I see this point too. Could be 70, could be 105. Like last year it was a month later, could cool off some or some freak thing could happen and it could be 30* in the morning. Which also sucked...

I think we have 2 many classes with the limited number of participants. Lets consolodate some.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
This has been discussed over and over and over. Theres no way to consolidate. They are broken down into basically as few classes as possible. The only way to grow an event is to have places for people to go. I grew up with my dad running motocross event with 200-300 entries. Hell we tried to do it last year and everyone went ape shit like it was the end of the world. So we were forced to change it back.


My point is that there are a lot of LT1 Stockers out there, and if they see the rules list that puts them in Mod N/A, and they see that their little 355 is going up against a 396 with 235cc ports and a single plane, they might not even think about coming. You'd be very surprised at the number of veteran NHRA/IHRA LT1 guys that have never heard of the LTX Shootout. As popular as it seems among us, it is still relatively unknown outside of our world. Gump is one of the faster cars and in 2012 it was running 10.80's with the hurricane breathing down our necks. Mike was running 10.0's, Carlos 10.20's, me 10.40's, Larry 10.50's. Granted he could holeshot our asses, but he's giving up 100+hp.

What "could" be a better idea would be to have a class just for them to run heads up, and any of them that want to also run Mod N/A could also do so. I'd love to see a field of 8-10 wheelstanding stockers.

And yes, I have plans to attend again.

I think them having their own class is an awesome idea. And they can run whatever other class is they want.

"Sweet" Payouts are difficult since the event is so small. Sponsorship money and parts prizes come close to covering costs for the rental etc... plus swag... trophies... etc.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
Funny you say that, i could have swore you were making accusations that tons of money was being embezzled in years past...


Oh I have no doubt you guys don't run the event to pad your wallet. Every penny and then some goes right back into running the event. I was simply saying a hypothetical case there. Money can do anything! A Wally to an NHRA guy is like a Super Bowl ring. Hard to get those guys to pass up that particular event. Indy is like their #1 event of the year. A win there is the highest you can get.

Most people understand running the event actually costs money, some, sadly, do not. Would be awesome if there was payout so someof them were more likely to show up...

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[popo8]

Hey zohan... if ur lookin to cause issues. Feel free to not visit the site. Im not getting into the shadyness of last years actions, or dealing with ur disrespect. One more and i pull ur plug here. Please feel free to remain here and respectful and enjoy the community tho.
Fastbird
meissen

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[ZOHAN]

I wasnt meaning to be disrespectful. Ive gotten plenty of that from certain people. But everything i said was facts. Right? Im sorry that for some reason you have this thing against me ever since i was trying to sell a shortblock and being an "unmotivated seller" because i didnt push it on someone that was looking for something else specifically. Im not trying to be "banned". Ill just continue here trying to avoid any confrontation with you like i have the past two years with a bad taste in my mouth and keep to myself. And very seldom here in the past year over things said as well. Again, hope this isnt my one more to get me banned, but felt i should at least answer

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[popo8]

I wasnt meaning to be disrespectful. Ive gotten plenty of that from certain people. But everything i said was facts. Right? Im sorry that for some reason you have this thing against me ever since i was trying to sell a shortblock and being an "unmotivated seller" because i didnt push it on someone that was looking for something else specifically. Im not trying to be "banned". Ill just continue here trying to avoid any confrontation with you like i have the past two years with a bad taste in my mouth and keep to myself. And very seldom here in the past year over things said as well. Again, hope this isnt my one more to get me banned, but felt i should at least answer

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Only since you asked, will I answer, however this is the end of the discussion. No, not everything you said was fact. Your accusation of me thinking there was "embezzling" was not "fact." That is something that your group came up with, and Im not sure from where. With that being said, no this is not your one more and banned. I have done everything I can to save you from being banned by me, and am glad you opted to stick around. You dont need to like me, talk to me, respond to my posts, and as long as you are not disrespectful, that is all totally fine. Glad you chose to stick around. Enjoy the forum and the incredible community that we have here.

[shownomercy]

Lettuce be cereal here, how can one honestly avoid the scourge of a poster called popo8 ?

Shit ain't possibru.

:lol:

[popo8]

Lettuce be cereal here, how can one honestly avoid the scourge of a poster called popo8 ?

Shit ain't possibru.

[emoji38]
U know... to think there was a time when I would see ur posts and think... THIS GUY IS A DICK... I never thought the day would come where I could say ur posts almost always make me laugh.

Thanku.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[green96ta]

There is something that I would like to address as far as the shootout. (Getting back on track!)

The weight penalty for having a 4L80e.

So everyone knows I'm going to do the 24x on the shop car. I am also going to swap a 4l80e, because it is just crazy not to. However, with it being a stronger transmission-it also has its own weight and time penalty built in. It is PROVEN to take more power to turn the 80e as opposed to the 60e. Which is a penalty in and of its self. Moreover, the 80e weighs more than the 60e already!

So there are two reasons why I think the penalty should be removed. First because of the two points above. Secondly, because the 4L80e can be ran by an LT1 PCM.

I understand why the 24x carries a weight penalty, it is a better system.

But with the 80e its only a upgrade in the sense of what power it can handle, but if you go straight from a working 60e to an 80e and keep everything the same you will lose time and power. So the weight penalty adds insult to injury

Plus if I run in extreme street, my car will have to weigh 3750 with the 80e and the 24x which is more than the car weighs stock weight with me in it.

So currently I need a ( popo8 Stop Reading here, and skip past the comma.) dead body for my trunk, or a willing LTxer to try and fit in the trunk while I run in a FULL WEIGHT TRANS AM with added weight.

[dawdaw]

question... with turbo and supercharged guys , they way you limit there power is by sizing correct?... why not do that in the extreme street power adder class and limit every guy to a certain jet size? seems like no one wants to pony up money for a direct port, or most don't need one for a smaller shot but i run one and because of that my stock gm baby heads, stock unported intake, mild 550 lift hydraulic cam, stock ecu, down to a factory dented up oil pan has to run modpa with cars that have way way more combo.

although my combo runs good for what it is (not trying to stroke my own shaft) seems the logical thing thing to do because you guys do it for turbo and supercharged guys , is just simply limit the jet to lets say a 150 or 200 shot or whatever.. direct ports DONT make any more power... ALL it comes down to is DISTRIBUTION and when your talking spray , distriubtion is very important from melting down an engine.

opinons, thoughts?

[dawdaw]

There is something that I would like to address as far as the shootout. (Getting back on track!)

The weight penalty for having a 4L80e.

So everyone knows I'm going to do the 24x on the shop car. I am also going to swap a 4l80e, because it is just crazy not to. However, with it being a stronger transmission-it also has its own weight and time penalty built in. It is PROVEN to take more power to turn the 80e as opposed to the 60e. Which is a penalty in and of its self. Moreover, the 80e weighs more than the 60e already!

So there are two reasons why I think the penalty should be removed. First because of the two points above. Secondly, because the 4L80e can be ran by an LT1 PCM.

I understand why the 24x carries a weight penalty, it is a better system.

But with the 80e its only a upgrade in the sense of what power it can handle, but if you go straight from a working 60e to an 80e and keep everything the same you will lose time and power. So the weight penalty adds insult to injury

Plus if I run in extreme street, my car will have to weigh 3750 with the 80e and the 24x which is more than the car weighs stock weight with me in it.

So currently I need a ( @popo8 (http://ltxtech.com/forums/member.php?u=1330) Stop Reading here, and skip past the comma.) dead body for my trunk, or a willing LTxer to try and fit in the trunk while I run in a FULL WEIGHT TRANS AM with added weight.

stuff shownomercy with a box full of dildos in the rear and you will make weight! lol!

[waltsfastz]

question... with turbo and supercharged guys , they way you limit there power is by sizing correct?... why not do that in the extreme street power adder class and limit every guy to a certain jet size? seems like no one wants to pony up money for a direct port, or most don't need one for a smaller shot but i run one and because of that my stock gm baby heads, stock unported intake, mild 550 lift hydraulic cam, stock ecu, down to a factory dented up oil pan has to run modpa with cars that have way way more combo.

although my combo runs good for what it is (not trying to stroke my own shaft) seems the logical thing thing to do because you guys do it for turbo and supercharged guys , is just simply limit the jet to lets say a 150 or 200 shot or whatever.. direct ports DONT make any more power... ALL it comes down to is DISTRIBUTION and when your talking spray , distriubtion is very important from melting down an engine.

opinons, thoughts?

IF you do this it will have to be limited to a .XXX nitrous jet. Different venders 150 or 200 shot is different from each other. With the set nitrous jet you wouldn't have to worry about low or high psi nitrous fuel systems. This wouldn't work for us direct port guys though or would have to have a difrent set number. Don't matter to me in extreme street cause I cant run in that class anyway.

[DMBlack]

Nitrous cars in the ES P/A class is currently limited by only running a single nozzle or plate kit. Where Mod gets to run a direct port.

[dawdaw]

Guess I'll buy a plate then. Thanks for the answer

[ZOHAN]

There is something that I would like to address as far as the shootout. (Getting back on track!)

The weight penalty for having a 4L80e.

So everyone knows I'm going to do the 24x on the shop car. I am also going to swap a 4l80e, because it is just crazy not to. However, with it being a stronger transmission-it also has its own weight and time penalty built in. It is PROVEN to take more power to turn the 80e as opposed to the 60e. Which is a penalty in and of its self. Moreover, the 80e weighs more than the 60e already!

So there are two reasons why I think the penalty should be removed. First because of the two points above. Secondly, because the 4L80e can be ran by an LT1 PCM.

I understand why the 24x carries a weight penalty, it is a better system.

But with the 80e its only a upgrade in the sense of what power it can handle, but if you go straight from a working 60e to an 80e and keep everything the same you will lose time and power. So the weight penalty adds insult to injury

Plus if I run in extreme street, my car will have to weigh 3750 with the 80e and the 24x which is more than the car weighs stock weight with me in it.

So currently I need a ( popo8 Stop Reading here, and skip past the comma.) dead body for my trunk, or a willing LTxer to try and fit in the trunk while I run in a FULL WEIGHT TRANS AM with added weight.
I agree with this. And I dont have one. Never really agreed with doing something stronger but slower to move you up a class

question... with turbo and supercharged guys , they way you limit there power is by sizing correct?... why not do that in the extreme street power adder class and limit every guy to a certain jet size? seems like no one wants to pony up money for a direct port, or most don't need one for a smaller shot but i run one and because of that my stock gm baby heads, stock unported intake, mild 550 lift hydraulic cam, stock ecu, down to a factory dented up oil pan has to run modpa with cars that have way way more combo.

although my combo runs good for what it is (not trying to stroke my own shaft) seems the logical thing thing to do because you guys do it for turbo and supercharged guys , is just simply limit the jet to lets say a 150 or 200 shot or whatever.. direct ports DONT make any more power... ALL it comes down to is DISTRIBUTION and when your talking spray , distriubtion is very important from melting down an engine.

opinons, thoughts?

Keep it up and youll be in outlaw next year so you wont have to worry about it. ;)


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[dawdaw]

What makes certain turbos better then others ? Billet wheels ? Larger wheels ? I know an 88 to another 88 can't be comparing apples to oranges but what makes the difference ?

[dawdaw]

Plate kit is a grand from nitrous outlet .

Direct port is about double that .

My only argument is nitrous is nitrous . The more spray you put to it the more it'll make (to a certain point) where the motor can't ingest any more

Same with a turbo . A 1000 cfm coming from two different head units are going to make very close power, one may be higher or lower in the rpm range due to sizing

So with spray why not just limit people ... there's not a single reason direct ports shouldn't be allowed , the reason they haven't been allowed is because they've always not been allowed . And for fear that some guy came in with a huge motor spraying a 300 would dominate the class ... or if you rwanted to limit them and give plate guys a slight advantage . Put plate and nozzle guys at a 200 and direct ports at 150. Idk.

I'm just merely looking at it from my stand point is all. I like opinions and seeing what others think about it

[ZOHAN]

What makes certain turbos better then others ? Billet wheels ? Larger wheels ? I know an 88 to another 88 can't be comparing apples to oranges but what makes the difference ?
That is funny actually. I know i guy with a lower end turbonetics turbo, dont remember exact numbers, but say 650 at 12 psi. He later switched to a slightly smaller, ball bearing turbo with billet wheels, and made barely more hp on 2-3 psi less because of the efficiency of the new turbo. The new turbo was also about $2k. So is someone with an old journal bearing 88mm the same potential as a brand new turbo? Dont think so. Just depe ds if they wanna push it or not...

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[Palamino]

As said, later in the year would be more comfortable for everyone. Perhaps sometime in late September or early October.

How about Columbus day weekend in early October? Weather is cooler, kids are back in school and life is getting back to a new normal from summer.

[green96ta]

I agree with this. And I dont have one. Never really agreed with doing something stronger but slower to move you up a class


Exactly. Hell the guys at yank even called to make sure I wanted an 80e converter because it slows you down a little compared to a 60e because of the gearing and parasitic loss. Then I get to have a 200lb penalty on top of it! :shiner:

Bill

[shownomercy]

Exactly. Hell the guys at yank even called to make sure I wanted an 80e converter because it slows you down a little compared to a 60e because of the gearing and parasitic loss. Then I get to have a 200lb penalty on top of it! :shiner:

Bill

The only thing I can sort of thing of for penalizing the 80e is you can sloppy mod it to have a T brake, without having a "T brake". Where as a 60e, well, a T brake doesn't even exist :lol:

But, ES NA is a min weight of 3300, so I really don't see what you are worried about unless you really wanna gut that car. For me, ModPA was a 3100 min and my car rolls around at 3660 so, its really of no concern. Unless you are dawdaw and drive a 2000lb tin can. ;)

[green96ta]

The only thing I can sort of thing of for penalizing the 80e is you can sloppy mod it to have a T brake, without having a "T brake". Where as a 60e, well, a T brake doesn't even exist :lol:

But, ES NA is a min weight of 3300, so I really don't see what you are worried about unless you really wanna gut that car. For me, ModPA was a 3100 min and my car rolls around at 3660 so, its really of no concern. Unless you are @dawdaw (http://ltxtech.com/forums/member.php?u=4087) and drive a 2000lb tin can. ;)

NO. I want to keep the car full weight. Its a Street Car. Why I am bringing it up is for two reasons.

1. There really isn't a reason to have a penalty for it. I could understand if someone modded it to have a tbrake, then penalize them by all means.

2. I am going 24x conversion which also carries a 200lb penalty. So that means my total penalties will be 400lb. Bringing my minimum weight to 3700+ lbs which my car with me in it only weighs 3600 right now. Meaning I will have to add weight. This is what I mentioned in my original post a few pages back.

Bill

[shownomercy]

Your TA weighs 3600 with you in it?

I just can't see that, but add in a 80e and decent rear end, you should make the min weight no issue.

[dawdaw]

The only thing I can sort of thing of for penalizing the 80e is you can sloppy mod it to have a T brake, without having a "T brake". Where as a 60e, well, a T brake doesn't even exist :lol:

But, ES NA is a min weight of 3300, so I really don't see what you are worried about unless you really wanna gut that car. For me, ModPA was a 3100 min and my car rolls around at 3660 so, its really of no concern. Unless you are dawdaw and drive a 2000lb tin can. ;)
If you took your big ass out of the unicorn and all that heavy turbo junk yours would weigh less then mine ;)

[dawdaw]

NO. I want to keep the car full weight. Its a Street Car. Why I am bringing it up is for two reasons.

1. There really isn't a reason to have a penalty for it. I could understand if someone modded it to have a tbrake, then penalize them by all means.

2. I am going 24x conversion which also carries a 200lb penalty. So that means my total penalties will be 400lb. Bringing my minimum weight to 3700+ lbs which my car with me in it only weighs 3600 right now. Meaning I will have to add weight. This is what I mentioned in my original post a few pages back.

Bill

Its a 50/50 on the trans thing . I personally don't see why they get hit with a weighty penalty because they already add more weight and more rotating mass but then there's the other side of the coin where others say nothing more then oem which is a 60e ...

Maybe could ask to meet in the middle with just a 50 or 100 lb weight hit ?

[shownomercy]

What does any class except a SS one care about OEM driveline parts?

I don't see any weight penalties for aftermarket rear ends, and I would equate a 60e to about as useful as a 10 bolt.

[DMBlack]

Just checking in on this thread and to let everyone know we appreciate all the feedback. Just wanted to make sure that everyone knew we are still keeping an eye on your comments.

[Mystery Bird]

I know it wont happen but I would go regardless of the date if it was closer to the east coast. I'm just about 15 hours away.

[popo8]

I know it wont happen but I would go regardless of the date if it was closer to the east coast. I'm just about 15 hours away.
We do the trip every year man. 12 hrs from here. Where are u located?

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[badfbodyz]

My Stock bottom end, HR cam, 6 speed LT1 will have to be in Mod/ PA instead of extreme street/ PA all because of the FAST xfi unit. Extreme street allows the 24x but not any other aftermarket ecu. On top of that, I planned on installing a direct port kit on this car, instead of a plate, but that also isn't allowed in ES. Feel like I would be out gunned in Mod/ PA, but oh well

[Mystery Bird]

We do the trip every year man. 12 hrs from here. Where are u located?

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

MA

[shownomercy]

I know it wont happen but I would go regardless of the date if it was closer to the east coast. I'm just about 15 hours away.

That was about what my drive was, its not terrible. About $260 in fuel for me.

[green96ta]

400# penalty for anyone with 6 opti trophies or more!

[Badhawk]

400# penalty for anyone with 6 opti trophies or more!
Hey wait just a minute that doesn't sound right to me. [emoji41]

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[shownomercy]

For 2016, is it safe to assume rules won't be changing drastically enough for worry about current combos not fitting next year?

[Ryan Stout]

For 2016, is it safe to assume rules won't be changing drastically enough for worry about current combos not fitting next year?
I really hope so, I don't know if I have it in me to completely redo another car.

[firebird_1995]

I guess it just depends on what everyone thinks. The idea behind this thread was to give people a chance to say what they feel would help. I don't see a huge shake up coming though.

[Badhawk]

Look I agree rules are important but,I think everyone gets to caught up in the my car won't compete BS so I'm not coming. I have 2 trophies that were gifts because I was the last car running in the class. This year I won Mod NA with me running 11.1 this class has had 9sec cars. What I'm trying to say is show up you never know what's going to happen.

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[green96ta]

Look I agree rules are important but,I think everyone gets to caught up in the my car won't compete BS so I'm not coming. I have 2 trophies that were gifts because I was the last car running in the class. This year I won Mod NA with me running 11.1 this class has had 9sec cars. What I'm trying to say is show up you never know what's going to happen.

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DING DING DING!!!! This is EXACTLY what happened in my car. Stock except for headers and I went home with an opti! Just like the lottery, you cannot win if you don't play!

[dawdaw]

I got a super opti on jeff your toast :scooter:

[Badhawk]

Doesn't look like an AC Delco that s**** going to come apart first pass lol

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[dawdaw]

It's ac delco . Better get your glasses checked :)

[shownomercy]

Looks slow

[Badhawk]

It's ac delco . Better get your glasses checked :)
Lol it better be your going to need it next year.

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[dawdaw]

Oh man I sense a new top end going on the firehawk ;)

[Badhawk]

Oh man I sense a new top end going on the firehawk ;)
Got a few things to figure out cost wise might not be NA anyone. We will see how the part list pans out before I make a decision.

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[popo8]

Got a few things to figure out cost wise might not be NA anyone. We will see how the part list pans out before I make a decision.

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Someone wants some boost...

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[gump]

FYI. The weekend after Indy was the LS Fest. Holley had a COPO shootout. The payout was $1,000.00 (W), $500.00 (RU), $250.00 (QTRS). They had five cars show up. Only two that race NHRA.

[SexyTransAm]

Wow I had no idea the payout was that high at LS fest

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[DMBlack]

FYI. The weekend after Indy was the LS Fest. Holley had a COPO shootout. The payout was $1,000.00 (W), $500.00 (RU), $250.00 (QTRS). They had five cars show up. Only two that race NHRA.

So, it sounds like you are saying that even if we move the date away from Indy, and increase payout it won't draw the NHRA guys in to the Shootout?

[joelster]

I would think that a payout of $1000 to win for a guy that bought a $120,000 COPO would be laughable.

[firebird_1995]

I kinda took it as it didn't matter what the payout was, they'll either come or they wont.

[joelster]

I kinda took it as it didn't matter what the payout was, they'll either come or they wont.

You could be right.

But make a $50k winne with $20k for runner-up, and see how many show up, lol!

[96LT1355Z28]

joelster, this isn't the Yellowbullet Nationals!:D

[dawdaw]

anyone heard anything from GM EFI?

[popo8]

anyone heard anything from GM EFI?
Yeah... i PM with him pretty often. We are in line for our coverage... hes just buried in other stuff first.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[gump]

I kinda took it as it didn't matter what the payout was, they'll either come or they wont.

Exactly. Maybe if you were to approach the fastest LT1 Stocker guys like Kyle, Warren, Rowe, etc. and invite them for a grudge match you could get some interest. Keep in mind that all of these guys live busy lives and one more race isn't always possible. Maybe you could target guys that are local to Bowling Green?

[Chopstix]

My 24x has has a higher cieling than an opti also. But a carb is 200lbs vs a 24x at 100. I'd like to see em both at 100, or even meet in the middle at 150.

any non OE PCM should carry the same 200+ penalty...it was initialy put in the rules to give the stock PCM guys a break.

[Chopstix]

What does any class except a SS one care about OEM driveline parts?

I don't see any weight penalties for aftermarket rear ends, and I would equate a 60e to about as useful as a 10 bolt.

my 700r4 has been mid 9s...nothing wrong with them

[Chopstix]

I really hope so, I don't know if I have it in me to completely redo another car.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[firebird_1995]

Is there any other input you guys would like to make?

[shownomercy]

Have cakes, with strippers in them?

[dawdaw]

Oh yeah. Big tits are a must !

JJersey boys get there own seperate cake with a hairy man in it for there viewing pleasure

[popo8]

Lol... keep it serious fellas. At least here, so the coordinator dont have to weed thru off topic stuff to see what the people want.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[gump]

The weight penalties that you guys added to Mod NA are a set back for the class.

[popo8]

Is it because of our smaller size that we can not just copy the classes at other events?

LTXtech.com IS my drug...

[Badhawk]

We are talking about a date change not location change correct.

[dawdaw]

The weight penalties that you guys added to Mod NA are a set back for the class.

Agreed.


Also mod na is a full tilt radical na clas, why limit ccylinder head selection to a 23 degree set up?

It should be lt1 block , any fuel, head, pcm u want, any suspension allowed.

Also mpa should not see a hit for afterkmarke . Ecu

Also a single 88mm will walk circles around a single stage n20 system in mod . I feel the f1a is a suitable blower for that class

Also direct ports should be allowed in.espa just limit them to a certain hp rating so.theres no unfair advantage over a nozzle or plate

My .01 cents

[popo8]

We are talking about a date change not location change correct.
I sure hope so. I think BG has become "OUR PLACE." Anywhere else would feel like cheating.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN

[shownomercy]

Agreed.


Also mod na is a full tilt radical na clas, why limit ccylinder head selection to a 23 degree set up?

It should be lt1 block , any fuel, head, pcm u want, any suspension allowed.

Also mpa should not see a hit for afterkmarke . Ecu

Also a single 88mm will walk circles around a single stage n20 system in mod . I feel the f1a is a suitable blower for that class

Also direct ports should be allowed in.espa just limit them to a certain hp rating so.theres no unfair advantage over a nozzle or plate

My .01 cents

You gonna pull jets to check ?

Or, bust out a caliper to check wheel sizes?

[dawdaw]

No wheel sizes are not a big deal can eyeball those. If anyone uses a direct port it takes all of about 10 secs tp crack an 11mm nut off and check.a jet

[firebird_1995]

Agreed.


Also mod na is a full tilt radical na clas, why limit ccylinder head selection to a 23 degree set up?

It should be lt1 block , any fuel, head, pcm u want, any suspension allowed.

Also mpa should not see a hit for afterkmarke . Ecu

Also a single 88mm will walk circles around a single stage n20 system in mod . I feel the f1a is a suitable blower for that class

Also direct ports should be allowed in.espa just limit them to a certain hp rating so.theres no unfair advantage over a nozzle or plate

My .01 cents
So you're basically saying make mod na an outlaw class, minus power adders? What about the mod pa guys? In the past the rules for pa vs na in mod and extreme street are mirrored, give or take the power adder. This was done for the nitrous guys so they could run both classes if wanted. By making a change to one and not the other could potentially keep a guy from being able to do this.

[dawdaw]

No im saying free up all the stupid restrictions on mod na. Its supposed to be a full balls to.the wall.all motor class .

No one with an naturally aspirated combo is gonna run outlaw.


Or maybe i interpreted what you said wrong.

[firebird_1995]

Yea, basically you want an na outlaw class. Run what you bring as long as it doesn't have a power adder, correct?

[dawdaw]

Pretty much.

[firebird_1995]

So if you do that to mod na, then going by the way the classes are modeled (a nitrous mod pa car could pull the tank and run mod na) your new mod pa class would be absorbed into the current outlaw class. That would leave a massive gap between the guys running stock bottom ends on a plate kit in espa.

[dawdaw]

No.im not saying that mod.pa should be allowed the same. Just mod na only

[firebird_1995]

That could potentially limit someone from being able to run both mod classes. We want to bring car count up. Ultimately you guys are the ones that have to live by these rules though. Just make sure you like what you decide. I would personally like to lock them from changes for 3 years at a time

[96LT1355Z28]

Are there that many NA guys not running a 21* or 23* head? I know there's bigger, better heads out there (18* RFD, etc.) but I feel like the guys running them aren't using an LT1 block. To my knowledge the fastest NA car (that's been to the shootout) is Mike V. and he's still using a 23* head. Maybe gump can chime in here but don't the NHRA stocker guys still use a 23* head? I'm not opposed to an all out NA class but I don't know that it'll draw anymore cars. Maybe change some of the weight penalties for the NA class but I really don't feel the base weight is unrealistic. I'm a fan of keeping the rules where someone can come and run multiple heads up classes using weight and tire size and the limiter. Not sure if this helps!

[dawdaw]

That could potentially limit someone from being able to run both mod classes. We want to bring car count up. Ultimately you guys are the ones that have to live by these rules though. Just make sure you like what you decide. I would personally like to lock them from changes for 3 years at a time
True Chris . That's a good point. I.agree

[gump]

Stock and Super Stock have to run the stock valve angle +/- 1 degree.

As far as the rules go, I think that the Mod N/A rules were good the last time that I ran with you guys. Throwing all that weight on for computer has made it a non-starter for me.

[firebird_1995]

Stock and Super Stock have to run the stock valve angle +/- 1 degree.

As far as the rules go, I think that the Mod N/A rules were good the last time that I ran with you guys. Throwing all that weight on for computer has made it a non-starter for me.
What if the base weight stayed the same but the stock pcm guys were given a weight break?

[dawdaw]

Stock and Super Stock have to run the stock valve angle +/- 1 degree.

As far as the rules go, I think that the Mod N/A rules were good the last time that I ran with you guys. Throwing all that weight on for computer has made it a non-starter for

me.

Daren what you planning on building now that.gump is in.retirement?

Would be cool to see you do.something radical that isnt limited by stock/comp elimanator rules

[Badhawk]

Yes would love to see you come back Daren, and if you would leave a little late on the tree on purpose : ) maybe I would have a chance.

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

[Dan]

Question about street stock.

Theory has it 94 and 95 LT1s got hardened pushrods. If I refresh my top end and/or whole motor, would I be able to run hardened pushrods in my 97 and still qualify for street stock?
Thanks.

[shownomercy]

Question about street stock.

Theory has it 94 and 95 LT1s got hardened pushrods. If I refresh my top end and/or whole motor, would I be able to run hardened pushrods in my 97 and still qualify for street stock?
Thanks.

No one will care, its a stock replacement part that gets you no added bonus over others.

Although, rules state you can run NSA rockers and guideplates but no mention of new PR cause of the added length needed. IE, not pure "Stock" anymore.

[Dan]

No one will care, its a stock replacement part that gets you no added bonus over others.
Works for me. Just didn't want to buy parts and not be able to participate :)

[shownomercy]

Works for me. Just didn't want to buy parts and not be able to participate :)

What, no, don't ever listen to me.

I am just voicing my opinion.

[Dan]

What, no, don't ever listen to me.

I am just voicing my opinion.
Well you had a point. My only purpose in upgrading to hardened rods is for peace of mind. We'll see what the official thingymaboob is.

[joelster]

LT1 cars are old, and most have high miles and need parts replaced. The way I see it, as long as the part you replace it with does NOT pose a performance advantage, then go ahead and run it. Now if you go and get some exotic pushrod that weighs way less, you might be in trouble. I'm sure the rules makers will chime in but a hardened pushrod simply helps with longevity, it doesn't add power.

[firebird_1995]

What material and wall thickness are the pushrods you bought? An argument can be made that a stiffer pushrod would help with valve train stability and help squeeze out a little more power. I agree that if it's just a normal mild steel hardened pushrod it shouldnt be an issue, however this is one of the most restricted classes that the shootout has and it has to be looked at pretty closely. 5 to 10 horsepower can be the difference between a W or an L.

[Dan]

I haven't purchased any rods yet. But if or when I do, they would likely be 7.2inch chromoly with .080inch wall thickness.

I completely understand that this may give an advantage in some cases that's why I wanted to ask. I know the shootout is more about having fun and that's why I want to go next year. If this is something that won't be allowed I am totally fine with replacing with steel gm performance ones.

[firebird_1995]

Well it's not that they're not allowed, it's just that push rods are not clearly listed in the rules as to what guidelines they have to meet except for the general internal engine modifications of being similar weight size strength ETC . The rules do allow for roller rockers, even non self-aligning ones which would require guide plates which would require hardened pushrods. I think it's just something we'll have to clarify in the wording of the rules

[Dan]

Well it's not that they're not allowed, it's just that push rods are not clearly listed in the rules as to what guidelines they have to meet except for the general internal engine modifications of being similar weight size strength ETC . The rules do allow for roller rockers, even non self-aligning ones which would require guide plates which would require hardened pushrods. I think it's just something we'll have to clarify in the wording of the rules
I appreciate the clarification. I just don't want, or like, to read between the lines. I know your jobs are difficult enough and having people pick at the rules doesn't help.

I'm totally ok with competing in other classes because I intend too :D

[gump]

What if the base weight stayed the same but the stock pcm guys were given a weight break?

I think that it would be good if aftermarket EFI, carbs, and 24x were at 3100 lbs as they all have pretty much the same potential. Allow a 100 lb weight break for a stock PCM.

[96LT1355Z28]

I think that it would be good if aftermarket EFI, carbs, and 24x were at 3100 lbs as they all have pretty much the same potential. Allow a 100 lb weight break for a stock PCM.

^^I like this, I'll never be at 3100 but it's a reasonable weight. Make sure you clarify stock PCM as 93-97 cause you know you'll get some saying the 24X (LS PCM) is stock!

[joelster]

You should give an additional weight break to guys like GUMP who run smaller cube motors. Say -100lbs for engines under 360 cubes. So technically a stock cube engine or a .030"/.060" overbore, running a stock pcm could come in at 2900lbs. Cars like GUMP running NHRA spec stock eliminator stuff could be 3000lbs, and then stroker engines running aftermarket stuff would be 3100lbs.

[MoeHorsePower]

I know for the turbo guys its said that meth injection is another power adder, but towards the final we are basically hot lapping, the nitrous guys, I feel have an advantage because nitrous makes power but also helps cool the motor, the turbos make power but adds heat under the hood.

[shownomercy]

I know for the turbo guys its said that meth injection is another power adder, but towards the final we are basically hot lapping, the nitrous guys, I feel have an advantage because nitrous makes power but also helps cool the motor, the turbos make power but adds heat under the hood.

Yup, takes a while to cool down the intercooler and associated mess under the hood.

I cringe to think what my IAT was at the last pass for TS.

[DMBlack]

For 2015 Meth was allowed for all forced induction cars in the power adder classes.

[firebird_1995]

Bump

[shownomercy]

I don't see the option for "Atco NJ", maybe its just my computer?


:lol:

[firebird_1995]

I don't see the option for "Atco NJ", maybe its just my computer?


:lol:
I'd love to go to an ltx event at atco. Make it happen man!

[popo8]

If there is serious intrest for an east coast ltx shootout, I would be willing to assist making it happen. Atco... Maple Grove... Cecil...

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN

[shownomercy]

Well, East coast wise, you have popo, shaun, mysterybird, BLS, and myself. I know I am missing a few but those are the active posters I know of

[firebird_1995]

Tony Quadros is another

[shownomercy]

And MikeV too right?

[firebird_1995]

Yea I think so. There's a pretty good presence there. It's been discussed before about expanding the event to other areas to help drum up interest in the main event. Hopefully that would be what happens instead of having 2 or 3 ten car events though...

[popo8]

Tony Quadros is another


And MikeV too right?
Yes... they are a few hours away but im sure they would be in.
joelster is another plus i have about 5 to 10 locals.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN

[Dan]

East coast shootout would be cool. Aint I considered east coast?

[popo8]

East coast shootout would be cool. Aint I considered east coast?
Ur Michigan right?

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN

[Dan]

Ur Michigan right?

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN
Hell ya! It's pretty much east coast

[popo8]

Hell ya! It's pretty much east coast ZGOBYBY is near u. She can tell u if its a doable trip.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN

[Dan]

So is dawdaw but he's a dork.

Back to discussion here. Is there still going to be a weight penalty for 24x? Could've sworn that was up for discussion before and can't remember.

[firebird_1995]

So is dawdaw but he's a dork.

Back to discussion here. Is there still going to be a weight penalty for 24x? Could've sworn that was up for discussion before and can't remember.
The penalty for aftermarket ecm in the modified class was the one being discussed.

[shownomercy]

Penalize eveeerbody!

[firebird_1995]

Penalize eveeerbody!
Proposing a 200# weight penalty for quasar blue cars....

[shownomercy]

Would be fine with me, the gayest MQB nitrous car and I are already battling for 2nd as is. ;)

[dawdaw]

I painted mine purple and has a ls1 in it as of last week.

[popo8]

I painted mine purple and has a ls1 in it as of last week.
Mmmmm... purple.

LTXtech.com IS my drug...
OWNER/ADMIN

[Badhawk]

I would be up for a east coast race as a secondary race. We definitely don't want to alienate the Texas guys.

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

[Mystery Bird]

I would be up for a east coast race as a secondary race. We definitely don't want to alienate the Texas guys.

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk
I second this motion.

[ZGOBYBY]

Hell ya! It's pretty much east coast

It's a very doable trip. It is 500 miles exactly... about 8 hours... and a very, very easy drive! Let me know if you want to convoy down for 2016... because I am definitely going this year coming up. :)

[Dan]

It's a very doable trip. It is 500 miles exactly... about 8 hours... and a very, very easy drive! Let me know if you want to convoy down for 2016... because I am definitely going this year coming up. :)
With the Camaro hopefully? And yes I'd be interested in a convoy :D

[shownomercy]

As Kyle and I pointed out on tech, for ModPA, a T6 88mm will run circles around a Ysi/Fia car. Now granted neither of those combos exist AFAIK, its something to think about. FYI, x275 allows a F1x against 88mm T6 turbos.

[firebird_1995]

As Kyle and I pointed out on tech, for ModPA, a T6 88mm will run circles around a Ysi/Fia car. Now granted neither of those combos exist AFAIK, its something to think about. FYI, x275 allows a F1x against 88mm T6 turbos.
Yeaaaaaaaaaa about that..........


The new rules are posted on the website now, so that sizing is something we will have to address next year.

[dawdaw]

Its something that doesn't really matter as how many of those combos really exist? Maybe a couple? . Probably should step up and allow larger blower combos or reduce turbo size either way. Not complaining just pointing out that the blower guys would be handicapped vs a turbo car with a f1a ysi

[shownomercy]

When will the date be posted for 2016, and if it has already where was it posted?

[firebird_1995]

It's September 3rd. It's posted on the website and Facebook page. It's in here somewhere too because I mentioned that if we want next year's date changed it would have to be decided AT the event.....