Considering change

[Fire67]

Hey all, I found a cure to my frustration with this car. I'm moding my ignition system so that I can run my FAST XFI in sequential injection mode. I've been working at this ignition mod for a while now and its been fairly hush hush because I wasnt sure if it would work. But now I'm 99.9% positive that it will.

Anyway, since I've got something to spur my interest in the car again... I'm considering swapping my fuel system over to methanol. Im talking no gasoline at all :cool:

This will allow me to get around a couple bottlenecks that I've been dealing with and lighten up the car at the same time. Here's what im talking about:
Ditch the twin highflow intercoolers (Loose the restriction bottle neck, weight, and no cost)
Ditch the methanol injection system (weight and just no longer needed)
Ditch the sumped stock fuel tank in favor of a smaller plastic cell (weight fuel compatability)

The expenses of the swap would include:
Belt drive fuel pump
Larger injectors
Maybe a different FPR
New plumbing from blower to TB
Possibly some new and/or larger fuel lines

But I can sell everything Im taking off and probably get real close to paying for the expenses all together. I'm working up a list of parts to sell and parts to buy right now.

I've been talking with some big dawg racers lately that run 12:1 or better, big psi, and no intercooler at all with methanol. Actually most dont even run a radiator. The fuel burns so much cooler that they only need to circulate air through the water jackets between rounds. I saw a back to back comparison test with a turbo'd LS1 car that swapped to methanol for fuel and picked up 70ish hp IIRC. Nothing else changed.

So what do you guys think? I wonder if a future LTx Shootout would allow me to run methanol? The big thing is that I CAN run methanol for a fuel in the few local heads up classes, and it 'should' help with reliability.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

I just want to say good luck and keep us updated if/when you go this route.

I'm guessing it's going to end up costing you way more than you think, just because most projects like what you are undertaking usually snowball.

Should be bad ass though. I take it no more street car, strictly race car???

[Fire67]

...I take it no more street car, strictly race car???

Lol, yeah that's basically it. I let the registration lapse and I'm taking the insurance off of it. I've had it registered and insured since I bought it, and the last 3 years I've driven it on the street only a handful of times. And when I do, I break the damn thing. I figure that if its not legal, I'll only drive it down the track. But who knows, maybe I'll start seeing E85 available around here someday :devil:

I understand completely how the snowball thing works... And I've gotten pretty good at avoiding it. Just gotta decide, plan, and then make it happen. By plan I mean figuring the cost of every single thing imaginable and then make sure the fundage is gonna work out.

If I cant afford it, I wont do it yet. I've still gotta finalize my little ignition trick in the mean time.

[Speed Density]

How much power do you plan on making? On gas and meth.

[Divine02]

I was thinking about going the same route. I'm all about street cars though so I'm keeping my streetable but switching over to E-85. Where I'm from theres one E-85 station so that will be the only place I can buy fuel, but it's not like i'm going on any big road trips with it. I just like being able to drive my car from home, to the race track and back again. It's just funny laying down a 7 second 1/8 mile time and then driving it back home when everybody else has to trailer their cars.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

Lol, yeah that's basically it. I let the registration lapse and I'm taking the insurance off of it. I've had it registered and insured since I bought it, and the last 3 years I've driven it on the street only a handful of times. And when I do, I break the damn thing. I figure that if its not legal, I'll only drive it down the track. But who knows, maybe I'll start seeing E85 available around here someday :devil:

I understand completely how the snowball thing works... And I've gotten pretty good at avoiding it. Just gotta decide, plan, and then make it happen. By plan I mean figuring the cost of every single thing imaginable and then make sure the fundage is gonna work out.

If I cant afford it, I wont do it yet. I've still gotta finalize my little ignition trick in the mean time.

I'm going to create a tune for E85 this year. I'm pretty sure I'll be pushing the limits of the 75lb injectors, but I did a little playing with the gas DFI tune and by raising the base FP I should be able to make them work as long as I keep it below 6500RPM...

[Fire67]

Im not sure about E85, but with methanol for fuel you need to use a BSFC of like 1.4 instead of the .6 you would use for gas. Its almost triple the fuel requirement.

Speed Density, the motor makes just a tad of 900hp (flywheel) now. I'm told that the methanol fuel would help to make more power, intercooled or not. I just dont know what kind of extra power can be made. So I think I'm going to figure the fuel system to support 1000hp @ the flywheel and if I need more I'll raise the static fuel pressure.

[Twisted Z]

Justin. Look over some of the drag sites real careful before you choose the 100% meth. There are some pretty serious side effects. Especialy when the car is not used often. That stuff is pretty corosive(sp). Just a Heads up if you had not heard.

As far as the twins? I never liked them. I used to have the big tripple caore and I felt it did a MUCH better job with out all the extra rubber hoses ;)

Sounds like you got a nice engine going together!

[Speed Density]

And your mainly a racecar? It sounds like you wold most benifet from the weight savings but methanol as your primary fuel is a huge swap from gasoline.

[Fire67]

Justin. Look over some of the drag sites real careful before you choose the 100% meth. There are some pretty serious side effects. Especialy when the car is not used often. That stuff is pretty corosive(sp). Just a Heads up if you had not heard.

As far as the twins? I never liked them. I used to have the big tripple caore and I felt it did a MUCH better job with out all the extra rubber hoses ;)

Sounds like you got a nice engine going together!

I have been speaking with some people fairly regularly over at yellow bullet and of course at the track and my new favorite engine shop. I've done a ton of reading up on the subject. And besides being extremely corrosive, it also burns at a much lower temp (read easier to start a fire), has a non-visible flame in daylight, and requires much more maintenance due to the corrosiveness of the fuel.


And your mainly a racecar? It sounds like you wold most benifet from the weight savings but methanol as your primary fuel is a huge swap from gasoline.

This car was my daily driver at one point. Nowadays I rarely ever drive the car, so If I go race only and remove the registration/insurance my costs will go down. Besides the methanol is cheaper than good un-leaded race fuel + methanol injection.

The weight savings is the biggest plus I can think of, right along side of the idea of getting rid of the equipment that I have come to loathe lately. And the simplification of the setup will be nice as well.

I was speaking with a very reputable engine builder and his tuner today, and it seems that aside from the loss in weight and restriction of the intercooler, I will actually be able to safely run more timing than I can now with 100 octane + methanol injection. They said my compression ratio was a little less than ideal, but that can always be changed at a later date... Time to start getting prices together and doing the cost vs. saleable items!

[slowdime]

Before you go crazy with the meth Justin, If you're planning on running real street, no methanol is allowed, I'm pretty sure its the same way for 6.50. But if your shooting for stock suspension or outlaw drag radial you can.

[Fire67]

I dont believe I've seen any rules regarding 6.50 having fuel requirements... But then again they have a cap on ET so fuel shouldnt matter.

I know real street doesnt allow it... But it would be something that I think I may be able to talk them into. Being that I would stay with the D1sc and barely be competitive. I'm looking into the costs before I make any hard decisions. After I see if the costs would be justified or not, I'll worry about class rules and whether I can talk them into allowing it or not.

Worst case I can always go grudge and bracket racing, lol

[slowdime]

I dont believe I've seen any rules regarding 6.50 having fuel requirements... But then again they have a cap on ET so fuel shouldnt matter.

I know real street doesnt allow it... But it would be something that I think I may be able to talk them into. Being that I would stay with the D1sc and barely be competitive. I'm looking into the costs before I make any hard decisions. After I see if the costs would be justified or not, I'll worry about class rules and whether I can talk them into allowing it or not.

Worst case I can always go grudge and bracket racing, lol

I'm not knockin the logic here, my point is you shouldnt have to limit yourself to only one or two classes to shave a little weight and make a little more power.

If you end up with a 6.50/ bracket car, if your anything like me you'll eventually regret it and want to run in real street and other similar classes. I've seen it all too much. Pops got into that for awhile with the s10, first it was NMCA in their truck index class that we traveled all over for, placed second in points one year, and then got burned out on that and got into 6.50 at IRR, until Real street came out.

Plus I cant be the only LT1 out there after I get back;).

[Fire67]

Plus I cant be the only LT1 out there after I get back;).

Real Street??? If your gonna run in it I'll drop all plans for methanol untill I find another good class... Maybe :cool:
Real street would be the most fun of them all. As long as they dont require me to keep it registered and insured, lol

We'll see how things go. I still wanna get the swap priced up either way. And I've got a fix with the ignition system to get sequential running. I've gotta do that first and foremost.

[slowdime]

Real Street??? If your gonna run in it I'll drop all plans for methanol untill I find another good class... Maybe :cool:
Real street would be the most fun of them all. As long as they dont require me to keep it registered and insured, lol

We'll see how things go. I still wanna get the swap priced up either way. And I've got a fix with the ignition system to get sequential running. I've gotta do that first and foremost.

Yep with a 76mm:devil:. May take me a yr or two after I get out of school, but it'll happen.

Not sure about having to have it registered, but all the rules are on the mafia board.

[Fire67]

So back on topic.... This guy I've been talking with about this stuff says to not run coolant at all if fueling with meth. Saying with any kind of coolant it willl not warm up. Now I'm sure that I've seen people running coolant with methanol for fuel before?