Does anyone know anything about the "petition" for a performance LTX block/engine???

[popo8]

HERE IS THE LINK:

http://www.change.org/petitions/dart-machinery-produce-a-ltx-performance-engine-block?utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_created

In case the link is blocked for you:








Petitioning Dart Machinery

(http://www.change.org/petitions/dart-machinery-produce-a-ltx-performance-engine-block?utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_created)

Produce a LTx Performance engine block






Dart,

We stand as a group of enthusiasts and friends that love and enjoy our LT1s and LT4s just as much as the LSx crowd. A few years back you produced a prototype LTx SHP replacement block and dangled it in front of us. We lined up to get our hands upon this great product to open the LTx enthusiasts to a world of power and cubic inch capabilities never seen before with this engine, then it was sadly cancelled. Please take these signatures as you want but understand, a lot of us are ready to buy and as before, we want this to happen. Our engines are not getting any younger and the LTx market is still strong, please consider this project again.


Thanks




To:
Dart Machinery, Sales and Marketing

Produce a LTx Performance engine block

Sincerely,
[Your name]




AND BEFORE I GET ALL THE , THIS WONT WORK, OR NEGATIVE THIS, OR CRITICISM THAT... I AM SIMPLY ASKING IF ANYONE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT IT, SINC IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION VIA THE LTXtech.com FB PAGE.

I AM NOT SUPPORTING, PROMOTING, ANTI...etc... JUST ASKING IS ALL.

[shownomercy]

lulz, heard this one before, in4dissapointment.

[Neil350]

The problem is a bunch of people will sign it but only 3 people will buy it. Doesn't make for a good business case. If you're looking to build a drag car, then chances are if you didn't want to go LS1 you would go with the plethora of Gen 1 SBC blocks already there. The LT1 is a bad ass factory block when you compare it to what the TPI and older stuff had and you can make awesome power with it. I stand by when I say that no one has found the factory limit on the block yet, if you trace the failures in the few big HP cars, it's always been some thing else that caused the damage. I can't see making 2000+ RWHP with it, but let's be honest, how many LT1 guys can afford a set up like that and the ones who can have the desire to build some thing like that? If you did it would be for a class and it would be easier just to do an after market SBC. I also say that other than a very few folks, most set ups are well within the realm of the blocks capabilities and reliability level. The guy who refreshed my 398 would get a lot of requests for all American internals in the LS1 stuff. So he offered a short block with all American forging and machining, guess what, people didn't buy it. Because of the cost difference. Going to be the same thing, I don't see people tearing apart running stroker cars with good blocks and swapping them over. Just won't happen.

[dawdaw]

Neil350

Hey Neil when I talked to you at the shoot out about big ricks set up, what did you say was the reason that thing let go a few times? Didn't you say it was previously a n2o car? My memory is crap lol.

[Neil350]

It was a nitrous car for a long time, it had a 383 with a CC306 in it when it was street car on spray, ran 10s. Then he did the 396 for nitrous, ran a couple NFRA events. Then they tore it down for the turbo set up. The short block was his old Nitrous motor with different Pistons, Cola Crank, Eagle H-Beams and pistons for the boost. He did a new top end on the motor, think it had some AFR215 RR head on it, Single Plane. They did fill the short block and enlarge the oil holes that feed the crank, put some after market race pump, still a wet sump though. The first failure was a thrust bearing, that was the night it went 8.08 at HRP on the low boost setting. Didn't make another pass since the motor was hurt. The next time it was out was Spring Break Shoot Out and the trans was having issues.

[Chopstix]

Don't get your hopes up for a dedicated aftermarket LTx block

[blkchevyz]

Dart actually had a shp or what ever their cheaper ones are block in development a long time ago, it was actually listed on their website but has been gone for many years. it was there when they were developing the lt1 heads, but i think the end result was not worth it for the lack of interest.

[ZGOBYBY]

Hey, if it works, that would be awesome! I'm for anything that would work.

I personally have spoken with a couple people that work for Dart, since they are local to me. One guy, who has a '95 Z LT1 car with Dart heads (I don't remember his name, I just call him the Dart guy) told me that for quite some time, Dart was working on producing a LTx block. However, once they reviewed the customer base versus the cost of tooling for production (which he said would have been around $200,000 to $250,000), it simply was not worth it.

[Neil350]

Dart actually had a shp or what ever their cheaper ones are block in development a long time ago, it was actually listed on their website but has been gone for many years. it was there when they were developing the lt1 heads, but i think the end result was not worth it for the lack of interest.

Same with Edelbrock on their LT4 Intake Manifold, they had it back in '98 or so in some of their magazine advertisements in Super Chevy. It's funny because those LT4 Intake Manifolds were under 300$ from GMPP, but when they stopped making them they sky rocketed in price. Then Edelbrock released theirs.

On another note, you know I would just be happy if we could weather strip kits for our cars at a decent price. Third Gen guys and Fox Body Mustangs people (who you calling "you people?") can get entire kits for their cars now for not a whole lot of coin. Soft Seal?? makes it now for 4th Gen cars but it's just as much as the GM stuff.

[97firehawk]

I'd love to get one for a future build although I believe it would be a bit over kill for the amount of power I would be shooting for . The stock block has been great to us . I can see how it would be very valuable to the big dogs though

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[Insanez]

Hey, anything is worth a shot

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[firebird_1995]

I could understand the high production cost if people were asking for a Studebaker block or something, but knowing the similarities between the lt1 and SBC, I don't see why they couldn't change A FEW components of their molds (front timing cover area) and let it rip. The coolant passages on the deck surface get machined during the boring and decking process so that wouldn't take that much extra work either. On the other hand, Neil is spot on with what he said. Thousands would sign a petition and 3 would buy. Surely we all remember the LPP header thing. Lot of people signed up, not as many went through with purchase.

[Insanez]

When I called Dart a few years back after they cancelled the idea, they said it would be about $8000 for them to make one and would take 8 weeks, way out of my price range.

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[Neil350]

That sounds right for a one off, $8K is a lot, that's billet SBC territory.

[blkchevyz]

i'd love to see one, but i guess i really dont see the point, it seems like all the high hp guys that would need one are already using sbc heads and intake why not just convert all the way.


though maybe if there was a bigger bore lt1 then maybe some head companies would step up more.

[dawdaw]

Call lsm engineering. . There down the road from me... They'll probably think you're high though lol... they build some wicked billet blocks.

[MEAN LT1]

What ever... I'll continue looking for the Gm Race Blocks that are out there. I'll just keep my eye on who has them. :-)

[Neil350]

What ever... I'll continue looking for the Gm Race Blocks that are out there. I'll just keep my eye on who has them. :-)

Brady had one at some point, I am not sure if he still down or got rid of it or what.

[MEAN LT1]

Brady had one at some point, I am not sure if he still down or got rid of it or what.

Last I heard he still had it. Hes on my radar too. I know two other people who have them as well. Would love to get my hands on one.

[Chopstix]

for those talking bout the strength of the block...that is not why we wanted one...the benefit is being able to run a larger cylinder bore....4.030-4.060 just doesn't cut it

[popo8]

Last I heard he still had it. Hes on my radar too. I know two other people who have them as well. Would love to get my hands on one.

What were they sellin for new?

LTXtech.com is my Drug...

[MEAN LT1]

What were they sellin for new?

LTXtech.com is my Drug...

Honestly, I dont think they were for sale to the gneeral public. You had to be affiliatiad with a GM racing team to get them. I forgot how many were actually made, I wasnna say 5-7 blocks are out there. I'm an LT1 hoarder and love all things LT1. So this is truly on my list of things to have in my possesion.

[popo8]

Honestly, I dont think they were for sale to the gneeral public. ...I'm an LT1 hoarder and love all things LT1. So this is truly on my list of things to have in my possesion.


Well thats cool they are rare... but at the same time...suck they are not more easily available.

I like that u said u love all things LT1

I GET THAT. LOL


LTXtech.com is my Drug...

[GuillaumeC]

I didn't know their was a "race" LT1 block... what special about it?

[Chopstix]

it will go 4.125+ :)

[Chopstix]

Clayton Racing posted a while back that they had one with unfinished bores @ 4.025 with .300 thick cylinder walls....I would love to get my hands on one

[GuillaumeC]

it will go 4.125+ :)

But is it stronger?

With the turbo motor I think the first sign I'll see is cap walk, even with the splayed 4 bolt mains.
A stronger Bowtie block would be nice. :D

[Chopstix]

yes...it is stronger as well.

[dawdaw]

Just curious anyone have a link to the old thread where they were talking about it... they had created a list of people that were in line to buy it but no one had $$$$

[MEAN LT1]

Just curious anyone have a link to the old thread where they were talking about it... they had created a list of people that were in line to buy it but no one had $$$$

The thread is on LS1tech, shouldnt be too hard to find with a search.

[whitemike03911]

Call lsm engineering. . There down the road from me... They'll probably think you're high though lol... they build some wicked billet blocks.

I called LSM, they will make a billet block for around $9000.

[popo8]

LOL.. what a deal!

[joelster]

I called LSM, they will make a billet block for around $9000.

They did my camshaft. They are a great company to deal with.

[JPack]

Holy crap. Can't believe I never saw this thread.

For the record, the I was part of the original Dart big cube LTX block. My engine builder at the time, Jerry Clayton was good friends with the Dart boys. I still have the block and front cover that I sent to Dart for all their measurements. They shipped it back to me after they scrapped the idea. Also for the record, it wasn't so much the added retooling costs as the "market" they thought would actually purchase it. With the LS crowd and every company out there making so much aftermarket parts and it being the hot platform, they just didn't see the need for it.

Needless to say after all the leg work and talks with them that they were going to do it, then announce formally it was going to happen, then the abrupt shitcan of the project, well pissed off would be putting our reaction lightly. We fought it stating the large community, the whole you build it and the others will build the aftermarket for it fell to deaf ears. Needless to say, I will never own a dart product as long as I am upright and breathing.

And yes there are the Race shop blocks that "dont exist on record but do exist". Clayton made a phone call and got one. You just have to know who to ask and where they are. Sorry, I wont let that out but they are out there and you will pay up for them when they turn up.

As it has been said, maybe a handfull of people would actually pony up the cash for the dart block. Was not gonna be crazy money, but most people are dreamers and window shoppers and at the end of the day, how many would really get bought?

So now i have this block and timing cover marked up. Just sitting here and will probably continue to sit here. There was also measurments taken to do a tall deck with specfic new timing cover to go with it. In the end it was their decision and one most of us true diehards will be pissed off at and wonder what could have been. I know I would have had #1.

[rjmarazzi]

One of those Chevy Ltx blocks sold on eBay a while back and it went for some money. It's rare enough it be hard to tear up I think it would be a coffee table at my house because you would never get another one.

[popo8]

Holy crap. Can't believe I never saw this thread.

For the record, the I was part of the original Dart big cube LTX block. My engine builder at the time, Jerry Clayton was good friends with the Dart boys. I still have the block and front cover that I sent to Dart for all their measurements. They shipped it back to me after they scrapped the idea. Also for the record, it wasn't so much the added retooling costs as the "market" they thought would actually purchase it. With the LS crowd and every company out there making so much aftermarket parts and it being the hot platform, they just didn't see the need for it.

Needless to say after all the leg work and talks with them that they were going to do it, then announce formally it was going to happen, then the abrupt shitcan of the project, well pissed off would be putting our reaction lightly. We fought it stating the large community, the whole you build it and the others will build the aftermarket for it fell to deaf ears. Needless to say, I will never own a dart product as long as I am upright and breathing.

And yes there are the Race shop blocks that "dont exist on record but do exist". Clayton made a phone call and got one. You just have to know who to ask and where they are. Sorry, I wont let that out but they are out there and you will pay up for them when they turn up.

As it has been said, maybe a handfull of people would actually pony up the cash for the dart block. Was not gonna be crazy money, but most people are dreamers and window shoppers and at the end of the day, how many would really get bought?

So now i have this block and timing cover marked up. Just sitting here and will probably continue to sit here. There was also measurments taken to do a tall deck with specfic new timing cover to go with it. In the end it was their decision and one most of us true diehards will be pissed off at and wonder what could have been. I know I would have had #1.
Very interesting man... now why are u not using the block that u sent to them..

[JPack]

It was a spare block i had that was checked to be perfect for measuring. I already had all my engines built.

[joelster]

It was a spare block i had that was checked to be perfect for measuring. I already had all my engines built.

It would be interesting to see just how many LS-type blocks Dart sells, when there are about 6 other companies making them, and stock GM LS iron blocks can easily handle 1500hp. I have a bunch of friends with 800+hp LS stuff and all of them use factory blocks.

[JPack]

I agree. But like all the others, I am sure they jump on the band wagon like the rest of them. I think had the LTX not been such a short lived run, the aftermarket would have been better. Along came the LSX engines and stole that away. You can find them in just about anything now. I do like my LTX cars I have and think I have done as much with them as I care to spend on them. I do have a lot of LS stuff and engines around. So far I just can't bring myself to throwing one in my toys. Not saying it won't happen some day as I am building up a pretty stout LS2. But until my son moves out and frees up 2 parking spots he has here, I am out of room and another toy isn't an option right now. I really want to find a 55/56 chevy to throw a blown set up in or maybe a GN roller. But both of those people still want stupid money right now.