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Fastbird
05-06-2014, 07:36 PM
How many weak ass excuses can a manufacturer come up with in a single email in order to deny a warranty claim.


Thank you for your warranty submission. We are sorry to hear that you
have experienced an issue with your radiator. We have submitted your
claim with the manufacturer and they have provided the following
response.

"Our warranty is valid only when there has been a premature failure of
the part itself or its components due to a manufacturing process for
the first purchaser at retail. This warranty applies only to those
products which have been installed in accordance with accepted
industry standards by a recognized professional service dealer.

This claim is not in compliance with the warranty conditions and the
warranty is voided. There is a stress crack on the tank of the
radiator. A stress crack is caused by excessive pressure. The part is
to be installed to industry standards. The radiator cap should hold a
minimum of 13.5 psi, where your cap only shows 13 lbs. Please ensure
you get a stronger radiator cap to ensure this matter does not
persist. A receipt of coolant is a condition of the warranty and
that was not met. The system was also not flushed prior to
installation. The pictures show dirt and debris around the part which
could also attribute to pressure build up. We also see some possible
damage on the a/c condenser which would also impact radiator. Please
advise the customer to also check their water pump, temperature
sensor, and gasket to see if there may be any defects or leaks for
they also may have attributed to the pressure build up."

We apologize for the outcome of the case for we understand this is
probably not the response you were looking for. We would strongly
recommend to review some of the suggestions that the manufacturer
recommended. We have brought this case up to our manager and he has
approved a discount for you order if you wish to purchase a
replacement. If you have any questions or if you need any assistance,
please feel free to contact us. Thank you!

This was in my Celica. It split driving home the other day. 4000 miles at most on it. No I didn't flush when I replaced it, it did not need it. Nor do I have consumable fluid receipts from almost 3 years ago. Those who have seen the car know how clean and impeccably kept it is. There is no sediment in the system, no pump or gasket issues, proper spec pressure cap, etc.

Here was my retort.


xxxxxxxx,

Having just spoken with you, here are my issues with the manufacturer rebuttal to my warranty claim.

A stress crack is a sign of premature failure when it's on a part that only got 4000 miles or less on it. Your manufacturers claim that a 13lb radiator cap is the issue is ridiculous. They cited that a 13.5 lb cap should have been used instead. Simple math tells me that a 13.5lb cap would create MORE pressure in the cooling system. Furthermore, my radiator cap is an OEM Toyota replacement, to which both my owners manual AND TOYOTA FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS state 13 lbs is the appropriate pressure. Has the person that wrote that response ever done math or worked on a car? How does a13lb cap make too much pressure but a 13.5lb cap won't? That argument makes zero sense and is nothing but a ploy to get out of covering the warranty claim.

When someone such as an ASE certified mechanic like myself has an issue, they usually do their own work. I have proven my certifications. Your manufacturers claim against not having been installed by a certified service dealer within industry standards is null and void. As is their rebuttal against not having the system flushed. It was not necessary based off of my professional experience.

Also, as to their claim of sediment and deposits in the system.....someone there needs to think their words through. The radiator tank cracked while the car was being driven. A system under pressure that fails like that invariably sprays it's contents everywhere, collecting any underhood dust and dirt along the way. I can provide a picture of very clean coolant straight from their because it's still in the collection pan right now.

Damage to the air conditioning condenser? It wasn't even pictured. A failed argument while trying to escape a valid warranty claim. As is the argument that a coolant receipt is required. Coolant is coolant, as long as its not dex cool intermixed, it's fine. No one keeps consumable fluid receipts anyway. Again, a weak argument to get out of a claim.

There are no gasket issues or cooling system issues in this car. Look at the car. It's not some sub standard maintained vehicle. This is an impeccably maintained vehicle which is not driven too often and highly cared for. Again, I'm a professional and know how to maintain my vehicles and what is and isn't a premature failure. This was a failed cheap plastic end tank on the radiator plain and simple. If a problem arises, I fix it.

The manufacturer needs to own up and admit this was very simply a failed component. There's no other explanation for it. Trying to use every excuse in the book to get out of covering it does nothing but promote a very substandard view of their customer service.

I don't want your manufacturers discount. The only way I'm putting their radiator back in the car again is a warranty replacement. Otherwise, I'll but higher quality elsewhere and be speaking with the BBB as well as to the poor product quality and support from the manufacturer. I do not take lightly to being scammed out of a valid warranty claim.

Sincerely,

Posted from my LG G2

SSlowBoat
05-06-2014, 09:18 PM
wow, i didnt know they went that far to get out of it. that sucks man

Fastbird
05-07-2014, 09:59 PM
Update.

Their response:


Hi Mr. Wall,

Thank you for your patience and understanding. I spoke with the
manufacturer today and this was what as advised to me. The
manufacturer advised to me that cracks are typically caused when the
plastic is flexed because of extreme hot and cold temperature. These
radiators are pressure tested prior to distribution but the radiator
is made of ABS plastic. It's ballistic plastic that can handle
pressure. The radiator cap should be able to hold 13.5-17.5 psi this
information is found under the Radiator Cap in the 1999 Toyota Celica
Service Manual, if you have a cap that can only hold 13 psi, that
could be the reason the radiator tank cracked. They advised that the
radiator cap pictured is not OEM, the OEM cap is not made in Korea.
The picture of the condenser was provided in the file radiator in
car.jpeg. They also advised it shows as Not Passed for Automobile
Service Consultant which means are you not a licensed professional
service dealer. Part of the warranty policy states, "This warranty
applies only to those products which have been installed in accordance
with accepted industry standards by a recognized professional service

dealer. For example, radiators and condensers must have the proper
coolant and distilled water mixture installed in the part, failure to
prove so will void the warranty." Because these items were not
fulfilled the warranty is voided.

In the end they explained to me that warranty is a legal situation and
they have guidelines that they need to follow. When the guidelines are
not met, then they cannot honor the warranty. I hope that they have
explained the situation a little better for you, although it's not
what you want to hear. I tried doing my own research to see if there
was anything that I could do and I had my manager talk to them as
well. I'm sincerely sorry for the inconvenience.

My retort:


I'm sorry but there is no patience or understanding here.

1. Just because I missed passing the "Automotive Service Consultant" ASE test doesn't mean I'm not ASE Certified. If your manufacturer knew what they were talking about they'd realize that's one test out of about 12 you can be certified in. That test was to be certified as a service writer, which doesn't mean anything when we're talking about professional accreditation towards being an automotive technician. The manufacturer is splitting hairs here and making themselves look like fools.


2. Your manufacturer is making things up. I have in front of my right now what's commonly referred to as a Toyota "BGB" or Big Green Book, I.E. the FACTORY service manual. There is no "Radiator Cap" section in the factory service manual, and your manufacturer should realize this if they had a true Toyota FSM in their posession. Furthermore, part of the radiator replacement procedure is to test the system at up to 17.1 PSI PER THE SERVICE MANUAL. But most importantly, your manufacturer seems to not understand how a radiator cap works. It holds pressure up to a certain point, as stated on the cap, that being 13 PSI, 13.5 PSI, etc. The cap won't allow more pressure in the system than what it's rated for. Your manufacturers argument that a 13.0 PSI cap allowed too much pressure over a 13.5 PSI cap is simply WRONG. My cap was an OEM spec replacement, 13.0 PSI is OEM, this cap was a replacement for that, same OEM spec. OEM Toyota or not, the cap is the proper spec pressure for the car.


3. Your manufacturers warranty is a scam, plain and simple. Ask your manufacturer to find a single shop that meets their criteria that will allow someone to bring in a part to have installed. They won't. An ASE Certified mechanic is all the certification needed, as that person is a recognized professional.


4. The picture that showed a shadowed shot of the condenser does nothing to prove any damage. How about if I said that my A/C system is 100% functional, and while there may be a bent fin or two on the condenser by looking at the picture, there is no damage significant enough to cause any issue with anything, and it's purely normal road damage from having 160K miles on the car. It is completely unrelated to this radiator failure and another weak attempt at slithering out of a legitimate warranty claim.


5. NO ONE uses distilled water. NONE of your manufacturers "professional service dealers" do, OEM dealership service centers don't, indy shops, chain shops, NO ONE uses distilled water. I had a 50/50 mix of coolant and water in the radiator.


6. Temperature variations. When I drove the car to work the temp was in the 70's. When I drove it home, it had dropped into the lower 40's. If the radiator can't handle that, it doesn't need to be on a car.


Obviously the manufacturer doesn't stand by it's products. If they did, they'd own up to the fact that this was a failure and not any installation issue or the like. I will be contacting American Eagle/Champion Radiators directly, as well as the BBB for CA where they're based, and will be seeking other customers with similar issues for a potential class action suit as it's obvious that they rarely if ever cover a warranty claim. I will also be doing my part to spread the word about the shoddy business practices of the company at this point for it's blatant semantics based excuses to try to get out of a valid warranty claim for a $70 radiator. Pathetic.


And I'm sorry but I can say no good things about **** ******* at this point either, as you as a vendor had a chance to step up and make this right yourselves, but chose not to, sticking with the manufacturers cheap words instead of backing up a paying customer.

This is flipping retarded.

Fastbird
05-07-2014, 11:34 PM
And after some looking, American eagle is part of Champion Radiators......amazingly look at their warranty policy: http://www.championradiators.com/warranty-return-policies

Do I have a leg to stand on here?

Posted from my LG G2

blackbirdws6
05-08-2014, 06:43 AM
And after some looking, American eagle is part of Champion Radiators......amazingly look at their warranty policy: http://www.championradiators.com/warranty-return-policies

Do I have a leg to stand on here?

Posted from my LG G2

Unfortunately I think you are SOL here. The warranty states this "This warranty applies only to those products which have been installed in accordance with accepted industry standards by a recognized professional service dealer." I'm not sure what recognized dealer means exactly but I read this as if you did this outside of a recognized shop, the warranty would not apply. They require distilled water is used and you admitted to not doing so. Whether or not anyone uses distilled in actual practice doesn't matter, it's required in the warranty language.

I'm not defending the company and it does appear the warranty is quite stringent but that's why they pay lawyers a lot of money to draft this stuff up. In the end, you received a subpar product that failed prematurely. It's a shame the vendor will not do anything for a $70 part.

Hopefully someone will step up but it's not looking good. Good luck and hope you get it sorted out.

Fastbird
05-08-2014, 07:08 AM
Oh, I even challenged them about their wording to find any shop that will supply a customer supplied part.

It's the principal of it for me. They're screwing me out of something I paid for, and who knows how many other people. It's all semantics. I did nothing wrong on the install, their cheap plastic end tank failed, and they're trying to blame me because of any number of reasons they can come up with? That's bs and I'll fight it tooth and nail.

I'm not expecting a new radiator at this point, that's pretty obvious. Already pricing full aluminum tanked pieces.

Posted from my LG G2

shownomercy
05-08-2014, 07:13 AM
DI water is where its at, dat OEM service life.

SS RRR
05-08-2014, 09:23 AM
Reminds me of when I had to hire a lawyer and almost took Frank Parra Chev. of Irving, TX to court because they would not honor my warranty regarding my optispark. Car had LT4 heads on it, they said that was the direct cause, said I was "lucky" my entire warranty was not voided, which they legally cannot do, said they did a compression test on bank 1 and all cylinders were below 90psi and wanted my credit card number to do a rebuild. Took it to another shop, found out it was a loose rotor. Hired a lawyer, who was fresh out of law school and hungry and he bombarded GM and that dealership with letters threatening to take this matter to court. Once a court date was given the service manager finally admitted on the phone to my lawyer the heads had nothing to do with the current problem, and he knew the ignition was at fault. Lawyer took that info and ran with it. Two weeks before trial GM settled and reimbursed me for all repair costs. This is the same dealer I tried to use to buy my SS and a salesman laughed at me and said "yeah, sure you are..." I guess a t-shirt and jorts aren't the proper attire to buy an f-body? lullzzzz

blackbirdws6
05-08-2014, 06:42 PM
Oh, I even challenged them about their wording to find any shop that will supply a customer supplied part.

It's the principal of it for me. They're screwing me out of something I paid for, and who knows how many other people. It's all semantics. I did nothing wrong on the install, their cheap plastic end tank failed, and they're trying to blame me because of any number of reasons they can come up with? That's bs and I'll fight it tooth and nail.

I'm not expecting a new radiator at this point, that's pretty obvious. Already pricing full aluminum tanked pieces.

Posted from my LG G2

I'm not defending their rationale by any means and I'm sure you installed it properly. Spread the word and obviously never buy from them again.

Fastbird
05-09-2014, 12:46 PM
Yeah, that's the plan. I've already ordered a new full aluminum tanked radiator for it so this issue won't happen again. Especially considering my last reply went apparently disregarded for the past two days now.