McCauleyWB
04-18-2014, 04:10 AM
I've never really done an introduction of myself and thought it high time to get a build thread up at least. Feel free to skip down a ways to avoid this long winded intro :)
Since my first car, a '93Z, I've always owned an f-body and eventually found my way to almost every related board for the last decade or so; primarily a lurker but always willing to lend a hand when I could contribute to the community. Some of you know me better than most. In any case, I have been struggling with my rebuild plans for a while. My current '94 has been down for the last couple years do to a head gasket failure. I looked it over at the time, but was so peeved by various issues with the car that it wound up on the back-burner. The car would routinely make it hundreds of miles between Northern California and SoCal, but it couldn't last more than a week commuting in this horrid LA traffic. Go figure. Unfortunately, I had just relocated for a job and hadn't even found a place to live quite yet. My tools were still split between places, and in storage, so I just bought another DD instead.
Until now, I had no prior experience rebuilding a short block so many of the concepts were foreign to me. Never short on plans for the car...just wasn't in a position to accomplish them at the time. After reading tons of information, and discussing my goals with Lloyd and Phil (AI), I am finally at a point where I can actually comprehend the responses I was getting...for the most part. That said, there are some constraints that are making the final decision very difficult.
As long as the stock bottom was in good shape, I was initially going to do a simple H/C rebuild to get the car back up and running quickly. Thought it may be wise to delve a bit deeper after 120 thousand miles to make sure it was up to snuff. Not sure how well everything holds up, so I banked on having to do a little work to true / freshen it up anyway. This is where things began to snowball.
As long as everything is torn down, I might as well go .030 over and reuse the factory parts I could on a nice 355. Hell...why not go even further and convert it to 4 bolt mains and stroke it. Brilliant! Now what would I need to go about this?
That was always my end goal anyway. Assuming price is not an issue, I'd ideally like to end up with a CA "legal" forged 383. Don't want any trouble with the man...as much as it can be avoided anyway. It may not be worth while now but I won't always reside in CA and want to build everything properly -- the first time -- to support a more aggressive build in the future. This also means it will need to run on 91 octane. Ugh. After putting together a list of parts I have lying around and those I commonly see used in comparable builds, the math does not bode well.
My main issues are trying to balance:
1) Compression high enough / parts stout enough to produce or support worth while power gains , but low enough compression to run on 91 without issues. IIRC, Lloyd stated a static compression ratio under 12 and dynamic CR of 8.7 - 8.8 with mail order tune is the highest he'd recommend. This is pretty close to what I have read elsewhere.
2) Mild, smog "legal" cam that will also be sufficient for the additional cubes. This may be a paradox -- though Ellwein, Lingenfelter (holy wow on price!) and Golen do offer them. This whole thing is a valuable learning experience for me so I am not looking to purchase one already built. In regard to the cam, I have found others run the Hotcam, CC305, some XFI grinds, etc with success. Not only did they pass a sniffer, but the owners claimed it ran well enough for their liking. Of course this is subjective and others would jump in saying they '[I]should' be running something larger. At the same time, I have even seen people mention a stock cam in 383. Is this possible without running like crap? More commonly though, I'd see the "minimum" sized cam most suggested not at all being emissions friendly in CA. Lots of varying information and finding something specific to CA is nil. I'm not concerned as much with the performance for the time being as long as it will pass smog without doing harm. Obviously it would be nice to find something in the middle that will get decent results in the interim.
Whether it be from sales, barters or the boards, I've somehow accumulated a bunch of parts that I hoped to put to use for various projects. Can't recall where half of these even came from over the years. Considering my plans have changed a half dozen times already, some of the parts may not be feasible for this build. I'm fine with that. If they do not work, I will get something that will. Figured I'd get some feedback before moving forward though.
Already have:
AI 220/230 .560"/.555" 112 LSA HR cam (57.5 IVC)
AI 200cc heads (Phil said they were ~53cc in the end)
0.026 head gasket
Most everything else being standard (ie. 3.75" stroke, 1.6rr, yada, yada)
Was shooting for static CR of 11.2:1-ish. More concerned with DCR.
I have been playing with different combinations of gasket, deck height, pistons, etc. I can get a good quench and static CR with -16 pistons, but there's clearly nothing I do can bring the dynamic down to run on pump gas with that cam. Am I missing something or do I need to go another direction entirely? I would need something with much higher duration/IVC to see low enough DCR. Problem is staying in the realm of emissions. The heads are really the only thing I want to keep given the cost.
There are a couple other questions that have been weighing on me. I've read the pros and cons of using 5.7" or 6" rods so we don't have to get in to that again. If I decide to go with 6" to keep weights and cylinder wear down [however negligible], should I keep an eye on oil consumption because of pin placement? Do I need to worry about contact with the AI cam at all? I assume it has to do with the rod choice. The differences between I-beam and H-beams have been covered pretty extensively as well but that is another tangent I still need to figure out. Ultimately, is it worth while to go with 6"? Has anyone run a length in between (eg. 5.85”) as a compromise? Leaning toward 5.7" I-beams at the moment as this seems to bring the compression down a bit.
Surely I've left some necessary tidbit out. If I am mistaken about anything...please correct me. Perhaps this can be beneficial to someone else in my position. Lord knows I've read just about every related tread on the boards I could find. The following is a running list of parts, tasks and notes that I jotted down throughout. Didn't want to include everything here until I have everything finalized. Though it isn't entirely formatted, the list encompasses much of my build. Keep in mind that I also have the supporting hardware for anything listed whether noted or not.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16jfNwI4vHEdH7kjhQjS5pHNsvlzED_O98NjiNjb9Tgw/edit?usp=sharing
Apologies for the wall of text :)
Since my first car, a '93Z, I've always owned an f-body and eventually found my way to almost every related board for the last decade or so; primarily a lurker but always willing to lend a hand when I could contribute to the community. Some of you know me better than most. In any case, I have been struggling with my rebuild plans for a while. My current '94 has been down for the last couple years do to a head gasket failure. I looked it over at the time, but was so peeved by various issues with the car that it wound up on the back-burner. The car would routinely make it hundreds of miles between Northern California and SoCal, but it couldn't last more than a week commuting in this horrid LA traffic. Go figure. Unfortunately, I had just relocated for a job and hadn't even found a place to live quite yet. My tools were still split between places, and in storage, so I just bought another DD instead.
Until now, I had no prior experience rebuilding a short block so many of the concepts were foreign to me. Never short on plans for the car...just wasn't in a position to accomplish them at the time. After reading tons of information, and discussing my goals with Lloyd and Phil (AI), I am finally at a point where I can actually comprehend the responses I was getting...for the most part. That said, there are some constraints that are making the final decision very difficult.
As long as the stock bottom was in good shape, I was initially going to do a simple H/C rebuild to get the car back up and running quickly. Thought it may be wise to delve a bit deeper after 120 thousand miles to make sure it was up to snuff. Not sure how well everything holds up, so I banked on having to do a little work to true / freshen it up anyway. This is where things began to snowball.
As long as everything is torn down, I might as well go .030 over and reuse the factory parts I could on a nice 355. Hell...why not go even further and convert it to 4 bolt mains and stroke it. Brilliant! Now what would I need to go about this?
That was always my end goal anyway. Assuming price is not an issue, I'd ideally like to end up with a CA "legal" forged 383. Don't want any trouble with the man...as much as it can be avoided anyway. It may not be worth while now but I won't always reside in CA and want to build everything properly -- the first time -- to support a more aggressive build in the future. This also means it will need to run on 91 octane. Ugh. After putting together a list of parts I have lying around and those I commonly see used in comparable builds, the math does not bode well.
My main issues are trying to balance:
1) Compression high enough / parts stout enough to produce or support worth while power gains , but low enough compression to run on 91 without issues. IIRC, Lloyd stated a static compression ratio under 12 and dynamic CR of 8.7 - 8.8 with mail order tune is the highest he'd recommend. This is pretty close to what I have read elsewhere.
2) Mild, smog "legal" cam that will also be sufficient for the additional cubes. This may be a paradox -- though Ellwein, Lingenfelter (holy wow on price!) and Golen do offer them. This whole thing is a valuable learning experience for me so I am not looking to purchase one already built. In regard to the cam, I have found others run the Hotcam, CC305, some XFI grinds, etc with success. Not only did they pass a sniffer, but the owners claimed it ran well enough for their liking. Of course this is subjective and others would jump in saying they '[I]should' be running something larger. At the same time, I have even seen people mention a stock cam in 383. Is this possible without running like crap? More commonly though, I'd see the "minimum" sized cam most suggested not at all being emissions friendly in CA. Lots of varying information and finding something specific to CA is nil. I'm not concerned as much with the performance for the time being as long as it will pass smog without doing harm. Obviously it would be nice to find something in the middle that will get decent results in the interim.
Whether it be from sales, barters or the boards, I've somehow accumulated a bunch of parts that I hoped to put to use for various projects. Can't recall where half of these even came from over the years. Considering my plans have changed a half dozen times already, some of the parts may not be feasible for this build. I'm fine with that. If they do not work, I will get something that will. Figured I'd get some feedback before moving forward though.
Already have:
AI 220/230 .560"/.555" 112 LSA HR cam (57.5 IVC)
AI 200cc heads (Phil said they were ~53cc in the end)
0.026 head gasket
Most everything else being standard (ie. 3.75" stroke, 1.6rr, yada, yada)
Was shooting for static CR of 11.2:1-ish. More concerned with DCR.
I have been playing with different combinations of gasket, deck height, pistons, etc. I can get a good quench and static CR with -16 pistons, but there's clearly nothing I do can bring the dynamic down to run on pump gas with that cam. Am I missing something or do I need to go another direction entirely? I would need something with much higher duration/IVC to see low enough DCR. Problem is staying in the realm of emissions. The heads are really the only thing I want to keep given the cost.
There are a couple other questions that have been weighing on me. I've read the pros and cons of using 5.7" or 6" rods so we don't have to get in to that again. If I decide to go with 6" to keep weights and cylinder wear down [however negligible], should I keep an eye on oil consumption because of pin placement? Do I need to worry about contact with the AI cam at all? I assume it has to do with the rod choice. The differences between I-beam and H-beams have been covered pretty extensively as well but that is another tangent I still need to figure out. Ultimately, is it worth while to go with 6"? Has anyone run a length in between (eg. 5.85”) as a compromise? Leaning toward 5.7" I-beams at the moment as this seems to bring the compression down a bit.
Surely I've left some necessary tidbit out. If I am mistaken about anything...please correct me. Perhaps this can be beneficial to someone else in my position. Lord knows I've read just about every related tread on the boards I could find. The following is a running list of parts, tasks and notes that I jotted down throughout. Didn't want to include everything here until I have everything finalized. Though it isn't entirely formatted, the list encompasses much of my build. Keep in mind that I also have the supporting hardware for anything listed whether noted or not.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16jfNwI4vHEdH7kjhQjS5pHNsvlzED_O98NjiNjb9Tgw/edit?usp=sharing
Apologies for the wall of text :)