Need Guidance with Installing Rockers and Pushrods

[FastLT1]

First all, I'm a newbie when it comes to working with the top end. So my builder/mentor has moved out of state after him and I finished building most of the engine so now I'm working without his guidance and am having some problems with installing 7.300 pushrods and Scorpion 1.6rr's. After reading the few write ups I can find on this, I think i've done it incorrectly.

Well I rotated the motor over clockwise until the cylinder #1 intake pushrod was all the way down and then tightened the rocker until the pushrod could not move up or down anymore and then I tightened the poly lock nut.

I followed this same method going in the firing order 18436572 on each cylinder. Intake first and exhaust second, rotating the motor each time until those pushrods were all the way down when the valves were closed.

Have I done this incorrectly and need to start all over? I'm hoping i haven't damaged anything. It just sucks because I don't want to remove the spark plugs since they've already been torqued in while the motor was on a stand (now its in the car) so the motor is very hard and slow to turn over making it kinda difficult to watch the pushrods move

[meissen]

As long as you're only doing it to the point where there's no wiggle in the pushrods, and not literally as far down as it will go, you should be OK. I followed shbox.com's directions on doing the adjustment with poly locks and while it worked good on my car, when I had to redo the adjustment on my dad's car I really, really preferred doing it with the engine running because you very easily can tell if it's clicking it's too lose and as soon as the clicking stops you're at zero lash.

http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#adjust_valves

[FastLT1]

Yes I only got them finger tight until the pushrod stopped moving but could still be spun and then tightened the poly lock nut. I'll more than likely adjust them when it's running like you said. I just wanted to make sure I didn't do anything wrong before I move on to the next step. Still have to install the opti, waterpump, radiator, and wiring harness before I can fire it up

[Fastbird]

Don't forget your preload. From what your saying you're only at zero lash right now and running like that can be damaging. If you're on stock lifters you need 1/2 turn of preload then lock the poly locks.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

[FastLT1]

Also forgot to mention my builder told me through text yesterday that the lifters were already preloaded from when he was working on it as if I had done the 1/2 turn so that wouldn't be necessary.

[firebird_1995]

Nooooooooo. He may have already preloaded them when he adjusted the valves last time but you lost that when you backed the polylocks off to readjust them. You need to start over using the procedure in the link above before attempting to start the engine.

[meissen]

Also forgot to mention my builder told me through text yesterday that the lifters were already preloaded from when he was working on it as if I had done the 1/2 turn so that wouldn't be necessary.

Say what? Preload is when you turn the rocker's nut PAST zero lash -- you're "preloading" the pushrod into the lifter. If the builder said he already had preload, then that would mean he already tightened the rockers. When you did the steps you described in the 1st post -- did you back the nut off the rockers entirely and then go through the process, or did the pushrods just feel lose to you? Something's missing from what you described.

[FastLT1]

I think he may have done it when he tried using the stock 7.2 pushrods with the rockers which were a little too short. He didn't say how he already pre loaded them so that's what i assume. All he said when I asked him if I should turn them another half turn was "you did read that somewhere, and its not incorrect, but when you start mixing info it gets complicated. ive seen the stuff in person and you dont need to do that this time, you dont have the clearance for it and the lifters are already preloaded as if you had already done the 3/4 turn"

[FastLT1]

And yes I backed the nuts off the rockers entirely

[firebird_1995]

Ok...
If you take a lifter that is fully relaxed, meaning its had time to return to its fully "un preloaded" position, then give it a half turn, its said to have a half turn of preload on it. The second you back the polylock off to readjust it, it will begin to return to its "unloaded position". If you don't wait long enough its possible for that "half turn" or preload to still be there, but we're taking seconds here, not minutes or hours. And different lifters will return at different rates so that's no way to adjust them. What hea saying is not completely false but very misleading! You need to start over and readjut them.
Also, what's he talking about with not having the clearance to tighten them? Piston to valve clearance? You may want to give all your engine specs so we know what you're dealing with

[FastLT1]

Ok...
If you take a lifter that is fully relaxed, meaning its had time to return to its fully "un preloaded" position, then give it a half turn, its said to have a half turn of preload on it. The second you back the polylock off to readjust it, it will begin to return to its "unloaded position". If you don't wait long enough its possible for that "half turn" or preload to still be there, but we're taking seconds here, not minutes or hours. And different lifters will return at different rates so that's no way to adjust them. What hea saying is not completely false but very misleading! You need to start over and readjut them.
Also, what's he talking about with not having the clearance to tighten them? Piston to valve clearance? You may want to give all your engine specs so we know what you're dealing with
He may have been referring to the clearance of the rocker hitting the rocker stud on the bottom. But here are my engine specs
355ci LT1 11.5:1cr
Speed-Pro Hyper pistons
Scat Forged I beams
Ported stock heads (not milled)
LE cam 232/240 .578 (tel:232/240 .578)/.574 110 LSA 107ICL
Scorpion 1.6 roller rockers
Hardened 7.300 pushrods
Stock 70k mile lifters
Lunati dual valve spring kit
Single roller timing chain
Victor Reinz .026 head gaskets
CSR electric waterpump
Pacesetter longtubes
TSP Rumbler cat back
K&N cold air intake
3600 stall
160* tstat

[firebird_1995]

Was the block decked a bunch? Why the longer pushrods?
I would start over on the rocker adjustment. Get the #1 cylinder on tdc of the compression stroke the loosen everything up well and allow the lifters to push back into the unloaded position. Give it a few minutes to be safe then readjust them

[FastLT1]

No the block was only bored .030. But the longer pushrods were because when we tried using the stock length ones they were slightly too short and the bottom of the rocker was bottoming out on the stud. But okay I'll readjust when I get off work. Forgot to add we're using 7/16 ARP studs and guide plates

[firebird_1995]

Did you double check the contact patch on the valve to make sure the longer pushrod left a good pattern? I'm not sure if longer pushrods were the answer to that problem. That may cause more problems than it solved.

[FastLT1]

How could it have caused problems? He used a pushrod checker after seeing the stock ones were too short. But do you mean where the rocker comes in contact with it? I checked all of them and they were fine.

Only pic I took at the time
21965

[englundjd]

now now dont get snappy, If he measured then the pushrods are most likely correct length

[firebird_1995]

now now dont get snappy, If he measured then the pushrods are most likely correct length

I don't think anyone is getting snappy.
The pushrod length was checked with the new rockers, correct?

[FastLT1]

I don't think anyone is getting snappy.
The pushrod length was checked with the new rockers, correct?
I don't think anyone is either lol. Thank you for your help though. This is a really stressful situation for me because I'm dying to hear it run after all the time and money I've sunk into it and I don't want to take any chances of damaging anything. But yes it was checked with the 1.6 rockers

[firebird_1995]

Trust me friend, I was just there with my build and it was very disheartening.
The reason I was questioning the pushrod length is because unless a lot has been changed from stock (milled heads, decked block, aftermarket heads or valves with a different installed height) the pushrod length doesn't go too far from 7.2". But I've never ran scorpion rockers so maybe they require a longer length pushrod. Its common for the body of the rocker to run pretty closely to the top of the nut on the studs when using guide plates. You may have to do some grinding to get the clearance you need. Unless you can get away with an even longer pushrod but if you're already at 7.3 there has to be something else going on. Here is a thread I found when searching about scorpion rockers and clearance issues....
http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?7333

[FastLT1]

Those are Comp Cams Ultra Gold rockers lol and a few guys recommended Scorpions as a replacement. But I get what you mean. Also, he never had a chance to play with the 7.300 pushrods because he had already moved by the time I got them in the mail. So I haven't actually made the 1/2 turn more to confirm that there will be clearance problems with the new pushrods. With these new ones though I don't think I'll have any clearance problems.

But I remember when I sent my builder a picture of the cam card, he mentioned that it says Small Base circle which would possibly require longer pushrods since the rollers will sit a little lower in their bores on the cam lobes.
21974

[firebird_1995]

Sorry I had too many windows open. This is the one where the guy was running scorpion rockers.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/1510184-scorpion-rockers-problem.html

But again, some guys say they've ran them with no issue. You are right, if your cam has a smaller than stock base circle then it would require longer pushrods. Hopefully that's the case and they will clear the stud.
I wonder why the small base circle? Maybe it was speced for a stroker?

[FastLT1]

Hmm I'm not sure. It's just Lloyd Elliot's LE2 cam. Most guys run it in stock cubed LT1s or bored over. But could you give me a quick walk through of what exactly I need to do with my rockers? Just want to make sure I do it right this time cause turning that motor over and over when it's 100 degrees outside SUCKS lol.

[firebird_1995]

Simplest way is method 1 here...http://shbox.com/1/4th_gen_tech2.html#adjust_valves
To get the engine on top dead center take the #1 spark plug out and have someone hold their finger over the spark plug hole while you turn the engine over(by hand). When air pushes their finger off the hole, the piston is on the compression stroke. Use a drinking straw to feel where the top of the piston is and bring it up until it stops coming up. It might take going back and forth a few times to make sure you're in the right spot. When you get there, mark the balancer in a spot in relation to anything. Timing chain cover bolt works good. Do the #1tdc valves. Then rotate the engine 360 degrees until the mark on the balancer lines up with your timing chain cover bolt again. Now do the #6tdc valves.

[SexyTransAm]

EOIC ftw!

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