Planning a cam swap. Have a couple questions.

[93M6Formula]

Hey guys, I'm getting bored running low 13's so it's time to step it up.:D
I am planning on running AI's version of the CC503 on my stock heads for now, or I might actually get the actual CC503 since it's a bit cheaper and I will most likely change it out when I do the heads down the road.

I'll probably just run the 918 springs unless someone has a better option? I drive my car a lot when it's nice so I want it reliable.
I already have Comp Pro mag ultra 1.6 rockers, 7/16 studs, and guideplates.

Will my stock 22lb injectors be enough? Otherwise I have a set of stock '94+ 24lb injectors laying around too.

What should I do about my oil pump drive? I hear these horror stories about it failing quickly.

Will stock length hardened pushrods be fine since i'm not removing the heads?

Anything else i'm forgetting besides the obvious gaskets and tuning?

Thanks for any help guys!

[BlackWidowSS]

Stock length might work on the pushrods HOWEVER, anytime you change the valvetrain, you should ALWAYS measure for accurate PR length...just because you aren't removing the heads doesn't mean anything. Your lobe lift will be different...installed spring height will be different...etc.

As for the injectors, they should be fine for a cam only car, but if you upgrade the heads, you should upgrade to something more like 32-36#.

The horror story of the oil pump drive breaking is the plastic at the top where it bolts in...people over torque it and crack the plastic, or because it is old and plastic it breaks. To be perfectly honest, I have done NOTHING with my oil pump drive and it has not had a problem yet....there is a company that makes a billet piece to put over the plastic to prevent it from breaking...if you want the security, get that.

Also, look into upgrading the lifters. I recommend a set of stock Corvette LS7 Lifters...they are what I run and I have zero problems.

[93M6Formula]

Thats true, I will measure to be safe.
I might upgrade the injectors anyway because I want spray someday also.
Okay I will be sure to inspect the drive when I pull it out.
Probably a good time for lifters. Mine have 115K on them.

[Catmaigne]

Roller cams don't really wear that much so you can get the CC503 used for cheap, probably around $150 or so on a forum.

You can run the 918s, but for me dual springs are a must if you plan on putting some hard miles on it. Either run the Crane 10308-1 kit (what I have) if you don't plan on revving super high or boosting in the future or the Patriot Gold Extremes. The Patriots are the better deal because those retainers don't come cheap, but it's unneccesary if the end result of your build nothing more than the average H/C LT1.

Someone sells a metal bracket that sits on top of the oil pump drive so the plastic doesn't crack. I forget who, saw on LS1tech.

The 503 is a base circle cam so stock pushrods will fit. My issue was that the retainers in the 10308-1 kit were too beefy and the rocker would bottom out. I had to use lash caps that I trimmed along with a 7.25" pushrod. My setup is only temporary (engine will be coming out), but if you use that Crane kit then I would definitely recommend locks that support lash caps.

[BlackWidowSS]

What injector are you going to go to? Don't go TOO big on injector...and how much spray are you going to use? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think you need a bigger injector to use spray......unless you are going with a super huge shot. Anyone care to correct me on that or help me out? I am no expert on spray lol.

[HellTeeOne]

If you're not dead set on the CC503 I'll sell you my old cam and springs. XE 224/236 .536/.555 lift, 112 LSA. Sort of a 'semi-custom' grind from back around 2004 when a bunch of the FI guys were running these lobes on a 114 LSA. Made 352/364 SAE with 104k mile shortblock, stock untouched heads, MAC shorty headers w/full catback, and stock water pump. I'd expect 5-10 more with LTs and/or electric water pump. Had a very stout midrange and peaked at about 6200 or so. Driveability was good with a decent tune. I ran it for about 5k miles or so, took it out recently when I switched to a AI H/C/I setup. PM me if you'd be interested otherwise I'm likely going to post it here in the classifieds soon.

[meissen]

I did the CC503 and while I was putting the cam package together I was talking to the guy who was going to be tuning it, and he recommended right off the bat going with 30# injectors instead of the stock injectors so that it'd keep the duty cycle away from being maxed out. If you do go that route, though, be aware that you have to have the PCM calibrated immediately before you start running the larger injectors.

I also went with stock length push rods - never measured, never had a problem. But I guess I half assed it. :lol:


Stock length might work on the pushrods HOWEVER, anytime you change the valvetrain, you should ALWAYS measure for accurate PR length...just because you aren't removing the heads doesn't mean anything. Your lobe lift will be different...installed spring height will be different...etc.

As for the injectors, they should be fine for a cam only car, but if you upgrade the heads, you should upgrade to something more like 32-36#.

The horror story of the oil pump drive breaking is the plastic at the top where it bolts in...people over torque it and crack the plastic, or because it is old and plastic it breaks. To be perfectly honest, I have done NOTHING with my oil pump drive and it has not had a problem yet....there is a company that makes a billet piece to put over the plastic to prevent it from breaking...if you want the security, get that.

Also, look into upgrading the lifters. I recommend a set of stock Corvette LS7 Lifters...they are what I run and I have zero problems.

I slightly disagree with the oil pump drive -- while ONE of the horror stories is the plastic at the top breaking, the other horror story is the oil pump drive gear itself being chewed alive by the harder metal of the CC503 cam and other cams. It's a common problem and in my honest opinion if you're already down do the cam swap and all that, you might as well do it right and buy a hardened drive gear from JEGs or where ever so you have the peace of mind that it won't wear out and cause you to lose oil pressure (not to mention the metal bits you'll have in your oil as the drive gets chewed up).

I also would do the white spring mod while you're in the oil pump area. It will keep your pressure higher.

And then when you're also in the area, I'd buy the retainer from JEGs so that your oil pump pickup tube doesn't fall off.

[BlackWidowSS]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one! I heard about it but mine has been through 2 cams...a cast comp, and a billet bullet, and when I looked at the gear not too long ago it looked great, so I left well enough alone. That does NOT mean all cases will be the same as me...if you want it, get it...there is no harm in being sure!

Also as for the injectors, I ran SVO 30# on my H/C/I 357 for a while and duty cycle was great. That is a good injector.

[93M6Formula]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one! I heard about it but mine has been through 2 cams...a cast comp, and a billet bullet, and when I looked at the gear not too long ago it looked great, so I left well enough alone. That does NOT mean all cases will be the same as me...if you want it, get it...there is no harm in being sure!

Also as for the injectors, I ran SVO 30# on my H/C/I 357 for a while and duty cycle was great. That is a good injector.

I was planning on Red Tops when I get injectors. Heard good things.

[HellTeeOne]

When I was "cam only" I ran the stock 24# injectors. They were at something like 110% duty cycle though.

[96z28SideSwype]

Damn glad I found this thread I didn't even think about injectors and I didn't know about the oil pump drive issue looks like ill just get the oil drive time to save more money

[Catmaigne]

I run the white Bosch III injectors #0280155811 that flow about 34 lbs/hr. You can find them on the supercharged 3800 Series II motors in a lot of Buicks. They cost about $40 at a junkyard if you can find them.

[jaysz2893]

I'm running a baby can with the dual springs. I'm running proform 1.6 full rollers and stock length pushrods. I got 26lb Acells and a good tune from Solomon for my 93. My injectors are running 75% duty cycle. All seems happy.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[93M6Formula]

I run the white Bosch III injectors #0280155811 that flow about 34 lbs/hr. You can find them on the supercharged 3800 Series II motors in a lot of Buicks. They cost about $40 at a junkyard if you can find them.

Thats what I thought about also. I can easily find a set from GTPs, regals, ultras, and SSEI bonnevilles everywhere.

[93M6Formula]

I'm running a baby can with the dual springs. I'm running proform 1.6 full rollers and stock length pushrods. I got 26lb Acells and a good tune from Solomon for my 93. My injectors are running 75% duty cycle. All seems happy.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

I forget where solomon is from? PCMforless? I have a bolton tune from pcmforless. Did he get it right the first time or did you send data logs?

[Catmaigne]

Lt1pcmtuning.com

I ordered a tune from him not too long ago. The car was pretty much undriveable and the PCM threw some codes... but those should have been tuned out (emissions). The stock tune with a different injector flow value was a million times better because I could actually take it around the block. I'd like to start datalogging but I can't because the tune is extremely lean. Gonna see if he can fix it.

Right now I'm running a lightly tweaked and M6 version of SexyTransAm's tune.

[93M6Formula]

Back on this...
What is a good spring kit for a CC503 sized cam? What will work on stock heads and wont require anything more than removing the stock springs and retainers and putting new ones in? I've never assembled a valve train before so this is a new territory for me. I'm not sure what is all required when checking spring heigths etc etc.

I also decided i'm going to go with AIs CC503 equivilent cam ( Can't remember what it is). I probably wont do heads for awhile so i'm okay with spending more on an updated custom grind.

[Still2slow]

If your getting the cam from AI go ahead and get whatever springs/shims/retainers/locks phil recommends for the stock heads, that way you shouldn't have to worry about checking height, seat pressure and all that. Go ahead and do valve seals while your in there. It won't take much more time and its good piece of mind. Some don't recommend it but I've always used a deep socket to push or lightly tap them down with a hammer. Seems like a 13mm is what I've used but its been years. Another tip is to tap the top of each valve with a hammer before compressing the spring, seems to help the locks break free. (Tap not slam)