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View Full Version : AUTOX/ROAD RACING QUESTIONS? READ THIS FIRST



MeanTA
04-22-2013, 11:20 AM
I have been seeing more posts lately. With people asking about Road course/Autox setups. So this will be my write up on the subject.

First decide how extreme you want to go in this type of racing. Modifications can and will put you in differnt classes(just like drag racing). And it can hurt you if rest of car is not on par with others. Due to one change that put you in a class.

Setting up your car:
SUSPENSION SUSPENSION SUSPENSION! I can't strees this enough. Focus on things to make the car tighter and more stable.

Control arms:
You want rod end/roto-joint. poly ends bind and limit axle articulation. And have them set at proper angle. pointing to cars center of gravity.

SFC:
Both 2 point and 3 point make a differene. I preffer 3 point because more cross bracing. Weld them if possible. Makes it less likely to stretch control arm mounting points.

Panhard Bar:
Adjustable Rod end/Roto-joint. Less deflection this way and you can center your axle. Another great option is a Watts Link it is more costly but removes the inherated nature of the Panhard bar. Since the PH is attached to the car on one end. It creates a point that causes it to shift the axle to the passenger side on axle exstension and compression. The Watts link removes this issue and keeps axle on center at all times.

Torque Arm:
You want it to be adjustable. So you can set proper pinion angle. Course racing is different from strait line setup. Due to the obvious difference in what the car is doing. i set mine at 1.5 Degrees. but each car is different. So test and tune to find what works for your car.
And remove the mounting point from the trans tail housing. Course racing is just as abussive on the trans tail housing as drag racing.

Full length or short Torque Arm:
Full length! Short cross member styles make the car unstable during braking and acceleration. When you are going into or leaving turns.

Sway Bars:
35/22 is a proven setup. And will be much better then our stock ones. I prefer the adjustable rear sway bars. They give you 3 mounting points that will change the characteristics of the sway(soft-firm). So you can fine tune you car to track conditions.(Hellwig and Strano offer these)

Upper/Lower A-arms:
New ball joints and bushings will do wonders. But if you want to step up... Any after market A-Arm works. Comes down to if you want adjustable or not. Adjustable will give you more fine tuning options. If you don't want adjustable the stock uppers are fine. aftermarket upper A-Arms(non-adj) offer almost zero benefit.

Springs/Shocks:
There is two types of spring progresive and Linear. Progressive is softer when not under load. And will become stiffer as they are compresssed. Linear is the same rate at all time. And will maintain that rate no matter where it is in its travel. I preffer linear. I makes setting up your shocks easier and more predictable. BMR and Strano are both Linear and are the exact same.

For shocks there are many options (adjustable KYB,Bilstein,Koni,QA1,Vicking ect). It comes down to budget and what you want. I preffer adjustable in either single or double. Because shocks are not a one size fits all thing when it comes to springs. And you can adjust compression and rebound to work with your spring choice.

K Member:
The stock one is a stoute piece. It just comes down to if you want to cut pounds off your car.

Brakes:
The stock ones can be improved with SS lines and better pads. But show there short comings at higher speeds and more agressive brake use. A common upgrade is LS swap. which will give you larger rotors and dual piston setup. I do suggest pressure cast calipers(C5 calipers) over 98+ LS gravity cast. If you are road course racing. And they experiance high temps for long periods. Because Gravity cast are more likely to spread.

Beyond these you are looking at Wilwood,Bear ect. which will give you the best brakes possible. But are not needed until you go extreme in your setup.

Tires:
This is very important to focus on. Every day econo tires will hurt you. No matter at what level your are racing. And are not designed for this type of driving. But luckely there is many good options for tires that are also DOT aproved. One that come to mind and my personal favorite is Nitto NT-01 tires. But there are cheaper but still good options out there. if you are just getting into this. And don't want to go crazy.

Lastly start small. Compete in stock classes and work your way up. It will give you chance to learn your car. And improve yourself as a driver.

If anyone has any questions. Be it pointers on setup or where to start in this form of compitition. Please ask and i will do my very best to help you!

I will get notified if anyone posts on this thread. And will check this section often.

MeanTA
04-22-2013, 12:02 PM
Engine and drive train:

Power is not always better. In autox after 400 rwhp power starts to become unusable in F-Body cars. And the cars will become tail happy. And you want your car to focus on mid range power. In a T56 car you will spend a lot of time in second gear(usually)

In Road Course racing you can have more power. But you want your car to be usable in all areas of the rpm range. Because you will be coming out of slow hair pin turns. And screaming coming to end of straits hitting turns. So plan your car according to what you want to run.

And the type of motor you run will put you in different fields. So check and figure where you want to be...

As far as transmission. M6 is best! but you can run A4 just make sure its up to the task. But it won't perform near the level a T56 will in this racing.

In either type you want you motor to give fast revs. with a constant progress in power output. And make sure you choose the form of racing you want to focus on. If you choose to be competitive at a higher level. Because cars can become specific to what form of racing they accel at fast.

These types of racing is the polar opposite at many levels compared to drag racing.

Blackbird96WS6
04-22-2013, 12:18 PM
Awesome write-up! Thanks!

popo8
04-22-2013, 12:36 PM
EXCELLENT!

Stickied for you!

MeanTA
04-22-2013, 12:54 PM
Awesome write-up! Thanks!
Thank you and your welcome:) Im not a drag racing guy. And can't help people there. But I do understand and compete in this type of racing. So figure i can help people out with this.


EXCELLENT!

Stickied for you!

Thank you!

Edit: Just noticed i got first sticky in autox section. I feel a little honored:D

Blackbird96WS6
04-22-2013, 01:03 PM
The idea of building mine up for road racing really does have me by a stranglehold haha. I figure once it's built to rip up a track, I can still have some fun with it at a drag strip any time I want anyway and it'll be faster than it is now. Won't be the fastest car there, but I don't care, as long as it's still faster than any of my friends' cars around here (which it already is), then I'm happy :lol:

Ghettogmc23
04-22-2013, 01:15 PM
Awesome write up! I dabble in auto-X with my daily and I have to agree that engine performance is not as important as suspension. Only thing I can say is after suspension I'd work on weight reduction and also weight relocation mods. Having all four corners balancing the cars weight evenly makes it easier to predict heading thru turns.
If I ever get an Fbody this is where I'm starting with my suspension overhaul!

MeanTA
04-22-2013, 01:16 PM
The idea of building mine up for road racing really does have me by a stranglehold haha. I figure once it's built to rip up a track, I can still have some fun with it at a drag strip any time I want anyway and it'll be faster than it is now. Won't be the fastest car there, but I don't care, as long as it's still faster than any of my friends' cars around here (which it already is), then I'm happy :lol:

AutoX type car can put a hurting on the drag strip. I do take my car out on it at times. It will never be able to run with the big boys. But still usable in its own right.

There is no true dual threat setup. but in all honesty i would not have my car be any other way. This type of racing is amazing and a blast to do.

Blackbird96WS6
04-22-2013, 01:23 PM
AutoX type car can put a hurting on the drag strip. I do take my car out on it at times. It will never be able to run with the big boys. But still usable in its own right.

There is no true dual threat setup. but in all honesty i would not have my car be any other way. This type of racing is amazing and a blast to do.

Exactly my thinking! I won't be running single digits, but I'm perfectly ok with that lol.

MeanTA
04-22-2013, 01:23 PM
Awesome write up! I dabble in auto-X with my daily and I have to agree that engine performance is not as important as suspension. Only thing I can say is after suspension I'd work on weight reduction and also weight relocation mods. Having all four corners balancing the cars weight evenly makes it easier to predict heading thru turns.
If I ever get an Fbody this is where I'm starting with my suspension overhaul!

I agree weight reduction and proper balance is critical also. F-Body cars are nose heavy. so cutting weight off the front end helps drastic. When people want to step it up.

I have made some major sacrifices. in comfort to make my car competitive. But on the other hand my car does not see near as much street duty as other cars. So its an acceptable loss.

MeanTA
04-23-2013, 11:37 AM
I posted a update to my first post. And will try my best to help anyone trying to get into this.

I have a decade of experiance doing this. Plus I am a licensed SCCA member and instructor. And have ran in many different classes. The rules are always changing but I have all the rules saved and keep upto date on a year by year basis.

And have a good grasp on setting up the 4th gen for this(through lots of trial and error). Plus I am always transforming my setup. And trying new setups if they show any promis of improvment

96LT1355Z28
04-24-2013, 09:53 AM
Nice writeup, clear, to the point, and easy to read!

MeanTA
04-24-2013, 10:30 AM
Nice writeup, clear, to the point, and easy to read!

Thank you! coming from another instructor that means a lot:)

I am not a strait line racer. So my input on that is limited. But I know this type of racing very well. And thank i can be of real help to others that want to try this.

I am going to order some gopro cameras. So i plan to put up some video showing people then ins and outs of how to do it. like best line of attack in turns. and throttle/brake I usually get my car to second. And keep my feet on gas and brake. Then just push the car through rear end shifting. Hard to explain so video will show how it works. lol

96LT1355Z28
04-24-2013, 10:43 AM
Great idea I was trying to figure out how you could explain the right way to enter and exit a corner as far as vehicle placement and throttle and braking. Putting it into words on a page just makes it really confusing. You pretty much have to be in the car to feel and see what is being referred to.

I have more straight line knowledge when it comes to competition. My road coarse stuff is limited to the crown vic which is very forgiving and isn't the most powerful car out there. If you spin one out or go off the track your definitely doing it wrong! Running through the curves with a vehicle that has good suspension and some power to lay down would definitely be much cooler but your skills would definitely need to be sharpened! We concentrate on teaching recruits to drive as quickly as they can safely while being aware of their surroundings IE running emergency on public roads. We don't time anything. We've found that just leads to competition, basics go out the window, and mistakes are made, recruits are doing pushups etc!

popo8
04-26-2013, 01:17 AM
....



Thank you!

Edit: Just noticed i got first sticky in autox section. I feel a little honored:D


Great effort deserves credit !!!



Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

MeanTA
04-26-2013, 01:32 AM
Great effort deserves credit !!!



Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

Thank You. Im hoping to get this section to grow a little. Many don't see the F-Body as a good track car like vettes. But the are actually just as good at it as they are going strait:D

MeanTA
04-29-2013, 11:29 PM
Bumping this up for people to see in new post section. Im wide awake. And feeling a little frisky and want to race. But can't right now.


So willing to let some setup info out of the bag. So ask away peeps:)

fullforce
12-08-2013, 11:29 PM
Did I miss the videos?
Great write up

MeanTA
12-08-2013, 11:45 PM
Did I miss the videos?
Great write up
fullforce
My car got officially retired from scca this year so I never made an example video of how to approach turns ect.

The urge to go smash the LTX standing mile record out of the water over took me. lol so I pulled it into the garage and started tearing into it and began its resurrection as the world's fastest LTX powered car(hopefully) :D

fullforce
12-09-2013, 12:10 AM
@fullforce (http://ltxtech.com/forums/member.php?u=5998)
My car got officially retired from scca this year so I never made an example video of how to approach turns ect.

The urge to go smash the LTX standing mile record out of the water over took me. lol so I pulled it into the garage and started tearing into it and began its resurrection as the world's fastest LTX powered car(hopefully) :D


Sweet, sounds dangerous and fun!!
I went 158mph in my car and I must say...200mph in a 4th gen would be crazy!
Is there even a LTX standing mile record? The LT1 name will be soon overpowered by the NEW LT1/LT4 so I hope its just for fun lol.

MeanTA
12-09-2013, 12:28 AM
Sweet, sounds dangerous and fun!!
I went 158mph in my car and I must say...200mph in a 4th gen would be crazy!
Is there even a LTX standing mile record? The LT1 name will be soon overpowered by the NEW LT1/LT4 so I hope its just for fun lol.

The current is 199.6 I believe. The new LT1 shares the same name. But different platform. So its record means nothing for the gen2.

This adventure is more to have bragging rights. And to be the best. When it comes to standing mile. I want to be top dog.

The car is being completely transformed for this purpose alone. Lots of R&D is going into this build working with a engineer working on drag coefficient, carbon fiber body panels ect. Lots of time and money going into this pursuit.