Lets do this again version 2.0 [Archive]

CALL911

01-23-2013, 09:40 AM

http://i50.tinypic.com/e6wrja.jpg

This is what we found first.

There is a slightly bent blade on my D1SC impeller. Really not sure how this happened, as I bought the D1SC brand new, and I have always ran an air filter on it. Talking to Pnyhntr (who used to work for ATI) said I should have it sent to ATI and have them replace it, as even with a slight bend, it could throw it out of balance and cause the whole D1SC to come apart later.

I did some research and found that average cost to replace the impeller is $1800! Wammy. It seems the impeller is the most expensive part of the whole unit. And of course they would disassemble everything and make sure everything else was still good.

After talking with a few other people with similar experiences, it seems that many have just let it keep going without any problems down the road. Seeing pics of their bent impeller blades (being worse than mine), and given the vast expense of the impeller blade replacement, at this point I have decided to "roll the dice" and just let it go un-fixed.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 11:28 AM

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ywvo14.jpg

The big culprit.

This was the major problem (I believe). This was a Nirtous Dave's sheet metal elbow. They had one for boost and one for NA. Not believing my 15 ish pounds of boost would not be enough to do damage to the NA elbow, I bought it as it was a bit cheaper. Obviously I was wrong as it had broke the weld and caused a vacuum leak which was noted on my last dyno with the boost at first peaking at 13 pounds, then 11, then 10, then 8 ect., and kept making less power.

Now, my buddy did repair in full the elbow with even stronger welds as seen below.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2jdp2xl.jpg

CALL911

01-23-2013, 11:43 AM

]http://i48.tinypic.com/2eczqs2.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2tyd2.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2mtlk.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/1szf5u.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/345dbvo.jpg

In the end given my friends welding ability, we decided to play it safe, and just fabricate a new elbow from scratch with welds both on the inside and out for reinforcement (this was how the boosted elbow from Nitrous Dave's was also reinforced).

chile

01-23-2013, 11:43 AM

Sorry about the blower but atleast it was on easy Gol for the elbow. Is there any way to work something out with ati.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 11:49 AM

Sorry about the blower but at least it was on easy Gol for the elbow. Is there any way to work something out with ati.

Its not new, so they won't warranty it. As far as they are concerned, it just falls under me wanting a new impeller, so it would be about $1800.

At first this looked like my only option. But after talking with some more people, I don't think mine is really going to come apart, and that replacing the impeller (as much as I would like to do it, money aside from things) may be more of a precaution rather than something that definately needs to be replaced.

Badbird_96

01-23-2013, 11:50 AM

The vacuum canister being a bad vacuum leak probably caused some of the issues you were having as well.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 11:56 AM

http://i45.tinypic.com/2z83m6r.jpg

The vacuum canister being a bad vacuum leak probably caused some of the issues you were having as well.

Im sure that it did if it was broke at the time. Not really sure when that happened, but it definately was playing a hand at a vacuum/boost leak.

When I dropped it off to my buddy, on the highway it would only show about 6 units of vacuum, and at idle, only about 2-4. We replaced the elbow, and capped the line to the HVAC vacuum canister and I was seeing 10 units vacuum at idle, and 12-13 while driving.

My hope is that between both of these I have solved the problem of why it was running bad, as all the evidence showed signs of a vacuum/boost leak.

Badbird_96

01-23-2013, 11:58 AM

That's a big improvement

CALL911

01-23-2013, 12:03 PM

That's a big improvement

Yeah, my buddies welds are much bigger, and stronger than the originals. For all we know the old elbow could handle boost, but I just wanted to play it extra safe.

The old elbow will be for sale shortly as soon as I figure out how much I want to ask for it.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 12:12 PM

http://i49.tinypic.com/zvoh3m.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/16i6u5k.jpghttp://i45.tinypic.com/6egns3.jpg

Now, while my buddy was doing such stellar work, I had him re-do all of my intake charge piping in aluminum. I had stainless steel, and it never looked good, and it hung a little low for my liking. My friend did not disappoint me with his work.

Badbird_96

01-23-2013, 12:17 PM

Your friend does awesome work

CALL911

01-23-2013, 12:17 PM

http://i48.tinypic.com/whb3pf.jpg

Before I knew I had a leak fro the metal elbow, I was guessing that my BOV was not closing all the way. So, I ordered a new 50mm Tial BOV, which my buddy also installed into the new charge piping. Even though it was found that this was not the problem, the Tial BOV moves a TON more air than the ATI BOV, so I was content with the upgrade.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 12:46 PM

In other non performance related issues with the car, I had cracked a joint where the torque arm meets the car. My car has always got good traction, so I guess it was a weak point. It was found, and fixed by the same buddy.

Also, as some may recall, while upgrading my brakes last year, I had an issue with the pad on the drivers side not seating right, and my rotor hitting the bracket. I replaced the brake line, and thought that would fix it, but I still can hear the noise, and still feel it contacting the rotor. So that still needs to be fixed. But I will need to get it running right, before I can really test drive it enough to track down what exactly the problem is.

Bersaglieri

01-23-2013, 01:00 PM

I wouldn't worry one big about that wheel being bent slightly like that. I've run much worse looking unbalanced stuff at 80psi without issues. Scratch that $1800 off the list and put it towards something else. It's seriously nothing.

Looking good on the elbow upgrade, very nice. Put me in line on that N/A one, I've been needing one for a while.

When I thought I had vacuum problems I just put brass plugs in the intake to diagnose if it was vacuum or something else. Only takes a few minutes and easily swapped back if it's something else. Cost like $4 at Fastenal. I will say I hate chasing vacuum leaks, my truck has the type of vacuum line that if you touch it, it'll break.

Looking good so far bud.

popo8

01-23-2013, 01:08 PM

Ben, I see KLINE is parting out his set up.... I believe there are a set of 227s on his list.

popo8

01-23-2013, 01:10 PM

Never mind, they are 210s.

Bersaglieri

01-23-2013, 01:11 PM

Just saw the other posts.

As noted AFR 180's are not ideal for you're setup, especially if they are the old castings. I see no reason to go to a AFR 227cc head because of the extra money involved in offset rockers or shaft mounts. I'm not sure how "huge" this camshaft is, but for a boosted application I doubt it warrants shaft rockers. I would look into Kyle Kline's AFR210's, especially if you're going to have someone with talent touch a few things up. Those will allow normal parts, good airflow, and a good price. Sticking with an aftermarket casting would be beneficial for you due to the thicker casting and deck for that boost. The springs he has on there for a solid roller probably won't work for you, but maybe you can cut a deal on getting them without. It's better they go with the camshaft anyways.

Everyone is glad you stuck with LTX. I know I've been beat up on about staying LTX for years. Lot's of verbal abuse from BBC and SBC and LSX guys on why I would ever stick with this platform. But there is something special about being triumphant with a limited platform, limited aftermarket, limited tuners, and limited everything. It's called the Underdog effect and I enjoy the challenge. Everything else just requires money, but with an LTX car, you've got to have some smarts and dedication others just don't.

popo8

01-23-2013, 01:12 PM

MEAN LT1

01-23-2013, 01:16 PM

Everyone is glad you stuck with LTX. I know I've been beat up on about staying LTX for years. Lot's of verbal abuse from BBC and SBC and LSX guys on why I would ever stick with this platform. But there is something special about being triumphant with a limited platform, limited aftermarket, limited tuners, and limited everything. It's called the Underdog effect and I enjoy the challenge. Everything else just requires money, but with an LTX car, you've got to have some smarts and dedication others just don't.

Well said.

popo8

01-23-2013, 01:21 PM

...

On a side not, I want to thank people like ZGOBYBY and Fastbird for being amazing friends along that bad stretch last year. And also to people here in this community like Popo for being patient with my while I was away.

LIFE happens man... we all understand. We just didnt like seeing you leave us. Glad your back bud.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 01:38 PM

Thanks guys.

Bersaglieri, I will send you a PM before I officially put the intake up for sale to give you first dibs on it. I just want to take some good pics, and figure out how much I want for it. It will be hard because I bought it for a pretty penny, then added vacuum lines, then had to have it modified to clear the hood (as on top of a super Vic efi intake it did NOT clear the hood when I got it). At that point I had more than $1,000 in the thing. Then later as I showed, I had some of the weaker welds redone when it split. I'm not going to ask anything close to $1,000 for it, but its still worth quite a bit (especially since you can't buy them anymore), and I need to sit down and figure out a fair price for it.

Popo, I don't want to go with the AFR 210's. My AFR 180's were fully CNC'd by TPIS which was a top dollar ordeal back in the day (it showed too with the added CFM). Then when I rebuilt the motor for boost, the performance shop hogged them out even further. I don't think the AFR 210's really flow that much better than my hogged out 180's honestly. At least not enough to warrant the expense and work to upgrade to them over what I have. If everything else is meant for high volume, I need to get something a bit bigger for the heads. The 227's although expensive with offset rockers needed, are what I want. I can get a good set of rockers from Harlan Sharp for around $430, and I will also need new pushrods. The springs I may be able to downgrade for free depending on what I need, so it shouldn't be crazy, but its not going to be cheap.

popo8

01-23-2013, 01:41 PM

Thanks guys.
Popo, I don't want to go with the AFR 210's. My AFR 180's were fully CNC'd by TPIS which was a top dollar ordeal back in the day (it showed too with the added CFM). Then when I rebuilt the motor for boost, the performance shop hogged them out even further. I don't think the AFR 210's really flow that much better than my hogged out 180's honestly. At least not enough to warrant the expense and work to upgrade to them over what I have. If everything else is meant for high volume, I need to get something a bit bigger for the heads. The 227's although expensive with offset rockers needed, are what I want. I can get a good set of rockers from Harlan Sharp for around $430, and I will also need new pushrods. The springs I may be able to downgrade for free depending on what I need, so it shouldn't be crazy, but its not going to be cheap.

Ok, I wasnt saying to get the 210s, I thought KLINE was selling 227s till I looked to get you the link. The Off set rockers will do the trick also, but when I spoke to AFR (1126 eliminators) their primary choice was the shaft mounts, although they suggested JESSEL.

You know there are bigger AFRs than the 227s now also... I think Tony S is running them... 23X.

popo8

01-23-2013, 01:45 PM

h yeah, and are your 180s LT4 or LT1 set up now?

CALL911

01-23-2013, 01:49 PM

Ok, I wasnt saying to get the 210s, I thought KLINE was selling 227s till I looked to get you the link. The Off set rockers will do the trick also, but when I spoke to AFR (1126 eliminators) their primary choice was the shaft mounts, although they suggested JESSEL.

You know there are bigger AFRs than the 227s now also... I think Tony S is running them... 23X.

Gotcha.

180's only came ready for LT1's to my knowledge. Mine are for an LT1.

Which set of 227's did you go with? The race ready 1076's or the competition 1126's? Where can you get 23X's? AFR doesn't show anything larger than 227's on their website. At least not for SBC LT. For SBC heads they offer up to a 245, but they state right on their website it is for an L98 style head (LSX).

Also, I was going to start another thread on this but might as well ask it here if anyone knows; can I still use my LT4 valve covers with AFR 227's?

Bersaglieri

01-23-2013, 01:52 PM

popo8

01-23-2013, 01:55 PM

Gotcha.

180's only came ready for LT1's to my knowledge. Mine are for an LT1.

Which set of 227's did you go with? The race ready 1076's or the competition 1126's? Where can you get 23X's? AFR doesn't show anything larger than that on their website.

Also, I was going to start another thread on this but might as well ask it here if anyone knows; can I still use my LT4 valve covers with AFR 227's?

Mine are the 1126 eliminators which are LT4 design, hence why I am running the intake that they call the door stop, lol

I was concerned that if you got them you would not realize and you would have to have intake work done again, because since your 180s are LT1 design your intake was made accordingly.

With that being said, Im not sure where to find 23x... but maybe Tony S can help you.. I swear I remember them being 235s or 237s..... but I dont know much more.

Finally , yes, the VCs can be changed between the two, in fact the nice thing about the 227s I got, is they allow either perimiter or center bolt mounting which opens up more options for VCs, but if you run center bolts, fill the perimiters with silicone...ask me how I know. lol

The only reason I jumped up to the tall CANTONs was the TD shaft mounted rockers are HUGE, and would not fit under my old valve covers, so as long as your rockers are not that big you should be ok..... (I dont know anything about the size of the off set rockers), sorry.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 02:04 PM

Ok, there is a lot of talk about heads with little information. How about some info on the whole setup especially the camshaft. There is alot more than AFR out there and if your in the AFR227 budget you've got LOADS of options. Let's get the details on the table and then talk about what the better routes are.

It's hard to compare the ported 180's with 210's [either Race Ready or Eliminator] without concrete data on where the 180 stands on actual port size and flow number. That's not the end all, but that data will be a start on figuring out where to go.

My cam specs: Custom Camshaft 244/254 @.050 , .578/.578 lift, 114 LSA. My AFR 180's where put on a flow bench. I need to dig up the paperwork (if it can be found) and see the actual flow numbers. But, I believe they flow benched at a little under 300 cfm.

Mine are the 1126 eliminators which are LT4 design, hence why I am running the intake that they call the door stop, lol

I was concerned that if you got them you would not realize and you would have to have intake work done again, because since your 180s are LT1 design your intake was made accordingly.

With that being said, Im not sure where to find 23x... but maybe Tony S can help you.. I swear I remember them being 235s or 237s..... but I dont know much more.

Finally , yes, the VCs can be changed between the two, in fact the nice thing about the 227s I got, is they allow either perimiter or center bolt mounting which opens up more options for VCs, but if you run center bolts, fill the perimiters with silicone...ask me how I know. lol

The only reason I jumped up to the tall CANTONs was the TD shaft mounted rockers are HUGE, and would not fit under my old valve covers, so as long as your rockers are not that big you should be ok..... (I dont know anything about the size of the off set rockers), sorry.

The intake will have to be taken off anyways and ported again to be matched to whatever heads I will go with. The can be made to work with an LT4 head at that time.

When you say VCs do you mean "valve covers"? If so you are saying I can use my LT4 valve covers?

popo8

01-23-2013, 02:07 PM

...

When you say VCs do you mean "valve covers"? If so you are saying I can use my LT4 valve covers?

Yes, sorry VC= Valve covers.

And yes they will bolt up no issues, EXCEPT if your offset rockers are larger than they will allow.

CALL911

01-23-2013, 02:13 PM

Yes, VC= Valve covers.

And yes they will bolt up no issues, EXCEPT if your offset rockers are larger than they will allow.

Probably going to have to adress that as it comes I guess, but I really hope I can use what I have, as I like them a lot, and I already have my catch can system and coil packs setup on them.

popo8

01-23-2013, 02:15 PM

Probably going to have to adress that as it comes I guess, but I really hope I can use what I have, as I like them a lot, and I already have my catch can system and coil packs setup on them.

Yeah.. your gonna have to just see how the new rockers sit....

CALL911

01-23-2013, 02:17 PM

Looked at just flow numbers between the 227's and the 245's (the 245s that won't work for my engine). At .550 lift the 227's flow 319, where the 245's flow 321. Barely any difference really where my cam is. The difference really is much higher which would not be a factor for me anyways.

Bersaglieri

01-23-2013, 06:37 PM

Ok, let's take an honest look at what you've got here.

My cam specs: Custom Camshaft 244/254 @.050 , .578/.578 lift, 114 LSA. My AFR 180's where put on a flow bench. I need to dig up the paperwork (if it can be found) and see the actual flow numbers. But, I believe they flow benched at a little under 300 cfm.

I'd really like to know the advertised numbers on that cam and what intake center line you installed it at. Are they Comp lobes, Lunati, Bullet? Who designed the camshaft? What springs are you running? Also what gears do you run, trans, rpm stall if applicable?

I'm not supercharged, so perhaps my understanding isn't up to par on this topic, but what is the purpose of such a large duration camshaft in a boosted application such as this? Was it designed for the single plane intake?

Looked at just flow numbers between the 227's and the 245's (the 245s that won't work for my engine). At .550 lift the 227's flow 319, where the 245's flow 321. Barely any difference really where my cam is. The difference really is much higher which would not be a factor for me anyways.

Now onto the heads. I forgot your 180's were worked on to that extent. Let's assume those 180's flow the 300cfm. We all know flow numbers aren't everything, but using that as the only gauge we have right now let's talk about em. First 300cfm at what lift, with what runner size, what lift, what bore size, and on what bench? That needs to be established first. We really need more info, but if they flow a legit 300cfm I see little reason to move to another head, well, barring other information. Why?

Because the AFR numbers are typically inflated out of the box. Yes, typically. I'd rather have touched up 180's that flow a legit 300cfm @ .600, that maybe pour 205cc, than spend thousands more on 227's that might flow 312cfm in Race Ready form. A 312cfm @ .600 with a [I]never gonna see on a LT1 4.125 bore, and 1 7/8 pipe on the exhaust. Flow it on a 4.030 bore or 4.060 bore like the AFR210's are and your getting the same numbers [With a 210cc as a 227cc] with bore that's actually possible with a LT1 block and without the added cost of 60/40 valves that need at minimum new rockers and guideplates. We're not even talking about them not fitting the valve pockets on your pistons which are probably intended for standard valve spacing.

If those 180cc heads are ported right, flow 300cfm@.600" lift, and have good volume, I just don't see the reason to pull it apart and swap unless you're going in to check other stuff.

That being said and me being uninformed about the whole situation. Get me up to speed on this thing. Other than mechanical issues, where else are the problems? Did the car not make power, trap bad, have fuel problems, have bad air/fuel ratio from tuning, or did it have problems with the opti, intake elbow, etc?

I know it might seem like a big bag of worms here, but I think it would be a mistake to throw parts at this car. Don't take it the wrong way, but jumping to the 24x PCM, AFR 227cc heads, offset rockers, etc makes me think you want to spend your way out this. I think it's going to need a fine tooth comb run through the whole build to cover all the bases.

CamaroZGuy

01-23-2013, 06:56 PM

First, sorry to hear about all the problems you have been having with the car, only caught a little bit of it before your time away. i can understand how the 24x has become kinda the scapegoat, i have talked to a few reputable tuners and all but Moe had said that they wont touch the 24x. but like any time big changes are made there will be growing pains with it, any thing from something getting over looked, missing supporting part, or just the new changes overpowering old warn out parts causing them to fail.

Second, awesome to hear you are getting back at the the car! hoping you will get it all squared away so i can finally meet you at the shootout and see your car.

Fastbird

01-23-2013, 07:10 PM

If those 180cc heads are ported right, flow 300cfm@.600" lift, and have good volume, I just don't see the reason to pull it apart and swap unless you're going in to check other stuff.

That's the problem. The heads flow good, but they don't have the volume capability to maximize the potential. There's just not enough cross sectional area in the runners for feeding the power up top. Moving to the 220+ heads will allow that extra airflow to extend the powerband well above 6K RPM which is what's needed at this point to see bigger power gains. We found the heads were truly the choking point after putting the Single plane on the car and picking up NOTHING in terms of HP and actually losing a bit of TQ in the process. Then everything else happened......

CALL911

01-23-2013, 07:24 PM

Fastbird hit the nail on the head. It's not just his and my opinion either, many people and tunes have showed that my heads are the choking point and just can't produce the volume that is needed for the full potential of my setup.

For complete ideal power and numbers, the cam is a bit big and not ideal for the boost. It was specked for me by the performance shop that did my engine build for the boost. I told them I wanted something MEAN and nasty sounding with good top end. The cam, as massive as it is has surely robbed me of a little on the setup, but I am too in love with the sound, thump and bump that it gives off. Besides my love for it, it also has helped me a lot on the street. Not making much power down low has allowed for traction until the car was moving enough for the power to kick in. Pretty amazing to put it in first gear with cold tires and 600+ to the wheels and get full traction (3.73 gears BTW).

CALL911

01-23-2013, 07:36 PM

As far as the exact issues, I reccomend looking at the original thread in detail as it should explain most everything.

Basically everything was fine with my old setup, but I was fearing the opti was going to go and it was not meant to run 7,000 RPM and was a weak point. So the 24x was the replacement. I also decided to go with the larger intake, thinking it may be an improvement over the hand ported LT1 intake (this was proven wrong after the lack of more power and loss of RWTQ on the dyno). Later as it was put on the rollers again is where I really started running into the issues with the vacuum/boost leaks that were just found. I believe everything minus the HVAC vacuum canister and the tune should be fine on the car at this point. But since I need a new tune, it's a good opportunity to upgrade to the larger volume heads.

Flyinz

01-24-2013, 10:26 PM

I've always loved that car and the way it sounded and performed. VERY glad to see you didn't give up on it and sticking with it. Your buddy is a terrific welder and seems to be a good guy to hang on to.

You'll get the bugs worked out of it, stay with it!

CALL911

01-24-2013, 10:57 PM

Thanks Nut. Since I recently got the car back from my buddy and its back in my garage, I've been subconsciously hearing it plea to have me get started on it. I plan on picking up the HVAC vacuum canister and the check valve on Saturday, and hopefully can get those installed. Also, I'd like to get some pics of my old sheet metal elbow so I can get it put up for sale. If I am lucky, I may be able to get a little wrenching done on it and getting some things out of the way, so Fastbird and I can get the heads pulled. I feel motivated, so I need to get going on it before the reality that its winter and I shouldn't be excited about car things right now sits in.

I'll keep everyone up to date, and I'll keep posting pics as I go.

Flyinz

01-25-2013, 12:15 PM

Years ago, wasn't your car in gmhtp?

popo8

01-25-2013, 12:19 PM

... groh and I posted in another member's for sale thread...hes got what your looking for... and you have what he wants!!!!

CALL911

01-25-2013, 12:24 PM

Years ago, wasn't your car in gmhtp?

My car has been in the street heat section before. And also was in an ad in GMHTP for Nitto tires. Then once more for the article on the 2011 LTX shootout.

CALL911

01-25-2013, 12:24 PM

... groh and I posted in another member's for sale thread...hes got what your looking for... and you have what he wants!!!!

Do show! You got a link?

popo8

01-25-2013, 12:34 PM

Do show! You got a link?

I see you found it.. sorry I was slow.

Flyinz

01-25-2013, 12:46 PM

Yep, probably the street heat section.

CALL911

01-25-2013, 01:07 PM

Yep, probably the street heat section

They used to be my favorite magazine. I put together a package for them on my car. I figured I would get a full article given the vast amount of mods and impressive performance along with some great pics. I was told it would get the full article, and I was ecstatic. The months passed by and I checked in with them to see how much longer before I would see my car in the mag. They informed me they had lost my package, but said if I resubmitted it that they would make sure my car got in eventually. Eventually came. My car with tens of thousands of dollars invested in both appearance and performance along with professional pictures got the street heat section. A section that usually shows cars with rims and simple bolt ons. Needless to say I was upset. Since, I have cancelled my subscription, and never again purchased the mag.

Bersaglieri

01-26-2013, 05:38 AM

That's the problem. The heads flow good, but they don't have the volume capability to maximize the potential. There's just not enough cross sectional area in the runners for feeding the power up top. Moving to the 220+ heads will allow that extra airflow to extend the powerband well above 6K RPM which is what's needed at this point to see bigger power gains. We found the heads were truly the choking point after putting the Single plane on the car and picking up NOTHING in terms of HP and actually losing a bit of TQ in the process. Then everything else happened......

Ah, I was under the impression that they may have been ported much bigger.

Fastbird hit the nail on the head. It's not just his and my opinion either, many people and tunes have showed that my heads are the choking point and just can't produce the volume that is needed for the full potential of my setup.

For complete ideal power and numbers, the cam is a bit big and not ideal for the boost. It was specked for me by the performance shop that did my engine build for the boost. I told them I wanted something MEAN and nasty sounding with good top end. The cam, as massive as it is has surely robbed me of a little on the setup, but I am too in love with the sound, thump and bump that it gives off. Besides my love for it, it also has helped me a lot on the street. Not making much power down low has allowed for traction until the car was moving enough for the power to kick in. Pretty amazing to put it in first gear with cold tires and 600+ to the wheels and get full traction (3.73 gears BTW).

The reason I mentioned the camshaft is because I know of a similar setup with a large HR camshaft. A 24x/25x similar lift, similar LSA, used in a blown 383 car, and the car is lacking everywhere. Without more details I couldn't say your cam can't work, but I think it goes without saying that it'd be worth looking into getting something designed for your specific needs and application.

I think buying Jason's 227cc heads would be a great move for you, of course I commented in his FS thread.

Good luck getting that thing squared away, I hope to see it at the shootout giving everyone else hell in the power added class.

CALL911

01-26-2013, 10:58 AM

Ah, I was under the impression that they may have been ported much bigger.

The reason I mentioned the camshaft is because I know of a similar setup with a large HR camshaft. A 24x/25x similar lift, similar LSA, used in a blown 383 car, and the car is lacking everywhere. Without more details I couldn't say your cam can't work, but I think it goes without saying that it'd be worth looking into getting something designed for your specific needs and application.

I think buying Jason's 227cc heads would be a great move for you, of course I commented in his FS thread.

Good luck getting that thing squared away, I hope to see it at the shootout giving everyone else hell in the power added class.

My AFR 180's are hogged out, but theres only so much that can be done. They are not nearly the volume of the much larger 227's.

I know the cam is not ideal for power on a boosted car. But in the manner it doesn't give me a ton of power down low, and that it peaks fairly high has given me surprising street habits. I can get full traction on street tires in 1st gear, and as the power builds up I am able to keep traction low until higher speeds and RPM's. I am sure more power could be made with a different cam, but I love the way it sounds and performs.

Right now, I believe the bigger heads will MORE than make up for extra power. I know I could get even more with another cam, but thats not really my goal. Its more about freeing up the choking point with my setup.

Unfortunately it seems Jasons 227's are the older "race ready" ones, and not the larger "competition" ones I was looking for. I may still get his heads, but its probable that I will just end up waiting to get the newer and higher flowing competition 227's.

Thanks for the advice though. I look forward to meeting you at the shootout as well! Also, later today I hope to get pics of my sheet metal intake elbow for you.

LT1Z28

01-27-2013, 06:27 PM

Ben, Good to hear the bugs are getting worked out on your ride! Can't wait to see how naughty it will be this summer!:cool:

Jeff

CALL911

01-27-2013, 08:47 PM

Ben, Good to hear the bugs are getting worked out on your ride! Can't wait to see how naughty it will be this summer!:cool:

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. I am eager just to have it running properly again. I can't wait until I get a small break in my busy schedule to start turning some wrenches on it.

CALL911

02-03-2013, 11:17 PM

http://i48.tinypic.com/653gop.jpghttp://i49.tinypic.com/2aahrn7.jpg
So this is how things looked under the hood at the start of the day.

CALL911

02-03-2013, 11:43 PM

http://i50.tinypic.com/2dvv0wi.jpg

And here is a later pic as the day progressed. Big thanks to Fastbird and ZGOBYBY for helping me get the wrenching done. Although the heads didn't get pulled, we did get close, and with luck should have them out in a couple days.

CALL911

02-08-2013, 02:29 PM

http://i46.tinypic.com/288y4gj.jpg

Heads have been pulled (thanks yet again to Fastbird). Progress...

Chris

02-08-2013, 05:42 PM

Hope to see the beast make some John Force Burnouts again this year.

How much room is there to clear with the studs to take the heads out?

CALL911

02-08-2013, 06:21 PM

Not much room! But we got them out. Not sure how we will get them back in (lol). I am confident in Fastbirds abilities though.

Fastbird

02-08-2013, 09:25 PM

The studs weren't the problem. The Kooks 1 7/8" headers hanging around were a PITA to work around. Putting the 227's in will be a fun time.

chile

02-08-2013, 10:10 PM

Fastbird, you're doing it wrong. You should always have a picture of scratching you're head not knowing what you are doing....lol. Keep up the good work.

bufmatmuslepants

02-28-2013, 06:18 PM

Sorry to throw a wrench into this, but what about some converted SBC heads? Dont the 227s have the valves pushed over slightly requiring flycutting the pistons again? If you are already prepped to spend the $$ on the valvetrain required for already expensive competition 227s, why not scour racingjunk or yellowbullet for some nice SBC heads and have them converted for $300? Hell, I see SB2s floating around every now and then for less than 227s, although you will need new headers...

popo8

02-28-2013, 06:36 PM

CALL911

02-28-2013, 06:40 PM

It depends on the pistons. If the clearance is too tight, then fly cutting would be required either way. At this point I am already committed as the heads have already been bought. I don't think I'll have to fly cut, but I'll measure, and if I need to, I will.

This kind of car and project is not one that will really be stopped by $300 and flycutting.

popo8

02-28-2013, 06:41 PM

CALL911

02-28-2013, 06:53 PM

$300 to fly cut!!!!! REALLY?

$100 bucks here.

Anyways, what pistons are you running BEN?

The $300 I just pulled out of my butt. I don't know how much it costs, but I'm sure whatever it costs it won't stop me.

I have custom diamond forged pistons.

popo8

02-28-2013, 07:13 PM

The $300 I just pulled out of my butt. I don't know how much it costs, but I'm sure whatever it costs it won't stop me.

I have custom diamond forged pistons.

Which ones....?

-XX, what?

mine are -22

CALL911

02-28-2013, 07:22 PM

Which ones....?

-XX, what?

mine are -22

Oh hell, I don't remember Larry. I'd have to dig it all up. I'm not going to change them.

popo8

02-28-2013, 07:26 PM

Oh hell, I don't remember Larry. I'd have to dig it all up. I'm not going to change them.

Im trying to compare to let you know if your gonna need to cut em or not... my -22s did not need fly cut.

Thats all....

CALL911

02-28-2013, 08:32 PM

I appreciate it brotha. But I am going to measure anyways just to know I'll be safe.

CALL911

03-02-2013, 10:51 PM

After talking with Fastbird today, we concluded I should be fine with my heads and pistons without needing to flycut.

UPDATE:

I recieved my heads today from Jason. Meanwhile, I may start getting some gaskets ordered and start preperation for putting everything back together.

I have been talking with my tuner and getting things ready for what we hope to be a late April tune.

popo8

03-03-2013, 12:28 AM

Good luck man.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

CALL911

03-03-2013, 12:51 PM

Thanks Larry.

I'll try to post up some pics soon as that makes it seem like more progress is being made.

CALL911

03-10-2013, 12:00 PM

http://i47.tinypic.com/288snm.jpg

Yesterday after I got off work, I gave my buddy my heads and intake to port match. I also told him to do whatever was needed to them for max performance on my setup. My porting guy is swamped right now, so really everything will be waiting on him to finish.

Then we can start putting everything back together :devil:

Flyinz

03-10-2013, 12:10 PM

Dumb question but what is that hose for?

Fastbird

03-10-2013, 01:56 PM

PCV

CALL911

04-21-2013, 07:45 AM

...getting anxious...

Still waiting on the port work to be done. The guy has just really been slammed, and then he is doing my port work in his very little off time along with countless others.

The good news is that I have finally reached my turn in line, and he should have started the port work this week. So hopefully another update soon.

shownomercy

04-21-2013, 09:45 AM

PCV

I would throw a catch can in that circuit, you sure you won't be sucking up oil into the intake? Dieseling is never cool.

popo8

04-21-2013, 09:59 AM

cant wait...hope this gets u straightened out Ben.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

blackbirdws6

04-21-2013, 01:06 PM

Can't wait to see the results.

CALL911

04-21-2013, 01:18 PM

I would throw a catch can in that circuit, you sure you won't be sucking up oil into the intake? Dieseling is never cool.

The car has a catchcan setup.

We will see results eventually. One step at a time though. I still need to get the intake and heads back from the porter, then hope for a break long enough in Fastbirds schedule to start putting everything back together (my guess is its gonna take longer than just a day or two).

Once I get it all together, hopefully it will be driveable enough to check for leaks etc, and enough I can drive it enough to get the old gas out. Once we believe there to be no bugs, then I have my dyno tuner ready in Indy, and we will see whatit does. From the time I get the heads and intake back, to where it hits the rollers I am going to guess will take about a month.

But I'll keep everyone updated in the thread accordingly, and will take video for everyone once there is something to take video of.

CALL911

04-29-2013, 08:17 PM

Porting is complete! I should have the intake and heads back hopefully Wednesday morning.

PAGING FASTBIRD, time to turn some wrenches! You available Wednesday?

popo8

04-29-2013, 08:18 PM

Fastbird

THATS HOW U DO IT BEN.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

Fastbird

04-29-2013, 08:28 PM

Porting is complete! I should have the intake and heads back hopefully Wednesday morning.

PAGING FASTBIRD, time to turn some wrenches! You available Wednesday?

*grumble* Sure, take me off of my own car on my day off. :D Yes, I'm available Wednesday. You off? Road trip to Lingenfelter to get said heads/manifold????????? :D :D

CALL911

04-29-2013, 10:38 PM

Yep, I'm off on Wednesday.

I plan on picking them up from Shawn first thing in the morning before he leaves for work. Though depending on what we may need, we may have to take a road trip to see Joe for some gaskets.

CamaroZGuy

04-29-2013, 10:40 PM

:popcorn:

CALL911

05-04-2013, 08:35 PM

http://i43.tinypic.com/14wdk5e.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/30iz1w9.jpg

Well, I have all the parts (minus a specific AFR head to intake gasket that should be in early week), but due to the busy lives both Fastbird and I live in, it seemed that our schedules would not coincide for a day off any time soon, and THIS CAR NEEDS TO GET DONE, so, Fastbird was awesome enough to offer wrenching on it in his garage (for those that don't know this, Fastbird is an excellent mechanic, and the only thing I do well with cars is drive them, and break them). So, the Z made its journey to Fastbirds garage today.

Sean, I'll be swinging by mid week sometime to drop off those other gaskets, and some coolant.

Fastbird

05-04-2013, 08:43 PM

The funny thing about this, is that the guy who towed Ben's car over is the same guy who's moved my toolbox twice now.

Ben I may have to upgrade a couple of things while it's here. For starters, those ugly wheels gotta go. I have a set of beautiful speedline WS6 wheels, one of which your wife left her mark on many moons ago, that would look great on your car. So I'm gonna do you a favor and swap those out for you. The BIGGEST plus about this is that those troublesome Baer brakes won't fit, so I'll have to swap my perfectly fine LS1 front brakes on to your car too.

Told ya I'd fix your brakes somehow. ;)

CALL911

05-04-2013, 10:10 PM

The funny thing about this, is that the guy who towed Ben's car over is the same guy who's moved my toolbox twice now.

Ben I may have to upgrade a couple of things while iT's here. For starters, those ugly wheels gotta go. I have a set of beautiful speedline WS6 wheels, one of which your wife left her mark on many moons ago, that would look great on your car. So I'm gonna do you a favor and swap those out for you. The BIGGEST plus about this is that those troublesome Baer brakes won't fit, so I'll have to swap my perfectly fine LS1 front brakes on to your car too.

Told ya I'd fix your brakes somehow. ;)

While you're swapping things, you might as well swap trannies, as I like T-56's with viper internals, and to make it perfect, slap that turbo under the hood as well. Always thought it would be badass to have both a supercharger AND a turbocharger under the same hood ;)

All joking aside, it was hilarious to see that guy today who did the tow. I gave him the address and he kind of paused a moment and said "that sounds familiar...". Then when I got there he told me that he was the one who moved your tools a couple of times. To put the icing on the cake, after I helped him back the tow truck up via hand signals he asked me "let me guess, you both met while you were both in the military didn't you?". I asked "why?". He said "normal people just use hands to signal, but you two signaled identical with hands and arms like you did it professionally for the military". (Fastbird and I used to be boom operators and part of our job was to direct k-loaders to the jet to load and unload cargo) I guess that even though neither one has done it in a long time, the hand signals seemed to stick with us. :laugh:

Ryan Stout

05-04-2013, 10:27 PM

Heh, You wanna swap trannies. /beavis and butthead moment

The SRZ

05-05-2013, 05:54 PM

That front end looks kinda high on that flatbed. Motor gone or just the heads and intake? Gonna be a beast when done Ben. Shippin my motor off this fall back to Midwest Engine Tech for Scott to rebuild the bottom end. Haven't decided just yet what to do about the blower and cam. Keep or switch to a PT91 mm and custom grind turbo cam. Got to sell a house 1st and foremost and go for there....

CALL911

05-05-2013, 06:06 PM

Silas! Good to hear from you old friend!

Yeah, just the heads and intake are off. The car was jacked up, and my QA1 shocks when unloaded extend out and don't compress until you push them down. So when I lowered the car from being jacked up for the tow, I never pushed the car back down (I wanted it higher up because I still had exhaust manifolds dangling under the car).

Man, I am glad to hear you haven't given up on your car. I understand your whole situation, and I wish you the very best of luck with both selling the house and getting the car figured out. It sounds like you've started in the right direction.

CALL911

05-05-2013, 07:46 PM

Just made the order on the 80# injectors. I should have them by the end of the week.

My 60# injectors should hold okay to get the car started, the bad gas out of the tank, an oil change, and the couple hour drive to Indy to get it tuned. Then the plan is to swap injectors on the dyno, and sell the 60# injectors.

popo8

05-05-2013, 10:18 PM

are tge 80 #'s plug and play or do u need the hi imp/lo imp converter fot them?

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

CALL911

05-05-2013, 10:32 PM

are tge 80 #'s plug and play or do u need the hi imp/lo imp converter fot them?

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

I also wondered this after seeing there was an adapter for "US cars" for them. Apparently they should work fine in my car without an adapter.

CamaroZGuy

05-05-2013, 10:35 PM

cant wait to see what your new combo dose! :popcorn:

popo8

05-05-2013, 10:45 PM

I think its cause u are 24x now and running an ls pcm that its not an issue for u.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

Fastbird

05-05-2013, 10:48 PM

CALL911

05-05-2013, 10:58 PM

Wrong. High impedance is high impedance. Low impedance is low impedance. Lsx pcms are set for high impedance. Ben, you need to find out if they're high-z or low-z injectors. If they're low, you'll nneed a converter box.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

They are high impedance, so no converter box should be needed.

I think its cause u are 24x now and running an ls pcm that its not an issue for u.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

No, Sean is correct. The 24x and LS PCM has nothing to do with it. These injectors are the exact same brand and style injectors I currently have on the car, just larger. They also ran fine when I was still running the opti and factory PCM.

cant wait to see what your new combo dose! :popcorn:

Yeah me too. But honestly at this point I'm not concerned with dyno numbers. I just want the car running well again back on the streets more than anything. Once that has been accomplished, then we'll see what power it makes.

popo8

05-05-2013, 11:00 PM

Wrong. High impedance is high impedance. Low impedance is low impedance. Lsx pcms are set for high impedance. Ben, you need to find out if they're high-z or low-z injectors. If they're low, you'll need a converter box.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

so ltx cars are high...or low impedence?

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

Fastbird

05-05-2013, 11:06 PM

so ltx cars are high...or low impedence?

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

High impedance. Most if not all factory injectors are high impedance. You don't start getting into low impedance until you get to the 72#/hr range. And up until the past couple of years the 60#/hr high impedance were as big as they got.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

popo8

05-05-2013, 11:12 PM

High impedance. Most if not all factory injectors are high impedance. You don't start getting into low impedance until you get to the 72#/hr range. And up until the past couple of years the 60#/hr high impedance were as big as they got.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

OK.. and BEN, the new 80s you got are HIGH or LOW imp?

Cause I thought that 60s were the end of the HIGH IMP (LTX capable without a converter) line of injectors....(thats where my confusion is coming from...THAT and BEN confuses me sometimes.)

Ryan Stout

05-05-2013, 11:47 PM

I have some High imp 80s in my car. I think Motron (sp?) makes em.

Fastbird

05-05-2013, 11:50 PM

OK.. and BEN, the new 80s you got are HIGH or LOW imp?

Cause I thought that 60s were the end of the HIGH IMP (LTX capable without a converter) line of injectors....(thats where my confusion is coming from...THAT and BEN confuses me sometimes.)

He said a couple posts up that they're high impedance. And Larry, sorry if I came across rather abrupt there with "wrong" being my first comment. Didn't mean to come across like that.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

popo8

05-06-2013, 12:08 AM

He said a couple posts up that they're high impedance. And Larry, sorry if I came across rather abrupt there with "wrong" being my first comment. Didn't mean to come across like that.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

Its ok... I have alot to learn still...sometime it takes several ways of explaining till it registers in this head of mine.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

CALL911

05-06-2013, 06:52 AM

Larry I also am sorry. Hopefully I didn't come across like a jerk, and sorry if I confuse you.

Ryan, you and I have the same injectors :)

popo8

05-06-2013, 08:08 AM

Larry I also am sorry. Hopefully I didn't come across like a jerk, and sorry if I confuse you.

Ryan, you and I have the same injectors :)

Its ok... seriously. I know my question asking can get frustrating. Like I was saying...sometimes info just does not sink in the first time.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

Fastbird

05-10-2013, 08:09 PM

Finally, after numerous days of being too beat or forgetting a minor but necessary tool.........update:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0870_zps6d618d8b.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0870_zps6d618d8b.jpg.html)

Nothing really noteworthy here. Had to narrow the center washer on each head (the #1 stud washer by the torque pattern) to clear the springs, but that was it. Not doing any work tomorrow, but sunday have plans to at the very least get pushrod length measured for the TD Shaft mounts so Ben can get those ordered.

popo8

05-10-2013, 08:42 PM

...for the TD Shaft mounts so Ben can get those ordered.

Thats a painful order.....

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

Fastbird

05-10-2013, 08:59 PM

Thats a painful order.....

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

What? Custom length pushrods? They're what, $125-140 still? The TD Shaft Mounts came with the heads.

popo8

05-10-2013, 09:03 PM

What? Custom length pushrods? They're what, $125-140 still? The TD Shaft Mounts came with the heads.

No...lol. the shaft mounts.
oh...thats good. cause the tds new were 1100.00

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

Fastbird

05-10-2013, 10:21 PM

Yep. Big reason why those heads were such a smoking deal at $2400. Essentially only paid $1400 for the AFR 227's

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

popo8

05-10-2013, 10:27 PM

Great deal... thats how I ended up with mine.

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

CALL911

05-10-2013, 11:54 PM

Awesome, work Sean! Those look badass!

Im gonna try to swing by tomorrow and drop off an oil filter, some coolant, and the head/intake gaskets Joe got in today.

I'll hit you up tomorrow, but I was gonna get the Formula out tomorrow evening, and wondered if you wanted to go for a cruise with me to check out the car scene in the Fort. I thought it might be nice to do some driving in an F-body for a change rather than wrenching on them.

Fastbird

05-12-2013, 03:43 PM

Measured up, and found that required pushrod length was a LOT shorter than I expected. Using my Comp 7702 and ran the numbers twice moving the crank around each time, I came up with 4 3/4 turns past bottom to zero lash (this is with the T&D's adjusted one turn down from top seated on the adjuster nut, smack in the middle of the adjustment range for them). So the measurement I got was 7.0375" dead on both times. So I'm going to have Ben order 7.05" pushrods, which will place the initial zero lash at the top end of the adjustment range on the T&D and leave me plenty of room to set pre-load.

I'm surprised, there's VERY little LTx information out there for these T&D Shaft Mounts.

CALL911

05-12-2013, 06:48 PM

Thanks for getting me the pushrod info Sean.

A set of Manley chromoly hardened pushrods in the length of 7.050 and 5/16 diameter (part #25727-16) will be on the way from Michigan tomorrow. Got them for $134 shipped, and they should be at your door Sean in a day or two.

Fastbird

05-16-2013, 06:56 PM

Little by little it comes together. Pushrods came in on Tuesday and were in and valve lash set Tuesday night. Wednesday was very little done due to missing some important bolts, but did get the headers bolted back in. Today I got the Water pump on, blower/bracket bolted back up, accessory bracket bolted back on, and power steering pump bolted back on. Tomorrow, I'll get the serpentine on, blower pulley and belt on (hopefully), and possibly drop the radiator and fans back in. If all goes well I should be firing this mother back up around the middle of next week at the latest.

Teaser:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0880_zps1995bf10.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0880_zps1995bf10.jpg.html)

CALL911

05-16-2013, 08:15 PM

First off, I want to say Sean is doing a kickass job so far!

Second, a lot of the hold up is due to my lack of organizational skills in my garage. I have now made 3 separate trips to Fastbirds house to drop more stuff off I keep leaving at home and he ends up needing. I think I finally got everything back to him, but for a while there I was a little worried when we were missing some key elements that could not just be bought at Autozone or a local hardware store.

At any rate, I have finally got my garage cleaned out and have things MUCH more organized, and I think even Sean would be happy with it. (I really had to clean it anyways because I had to make room for the Z, my 2 daily drivers, my 4-wheeler, my power washer, and my new riding mower I just bought.

http://i42.tinypic.com/3583xnk.jpg

CALL911

05-16-2013, 08:19 PM

I'll be headed over Sunday for a chance to help turn some wrenches on some misc. stuff that has been adding up, like that broken vacuum canister, my new bump stops, my shifter boot, and hopefully a hand piecing things back together under the hood.

Mike Norris who tuned my car last time has my Z scheduled for a dyno tune Wednesday, May 29th. Barring nothing unforseen happens, the car will be all done by the end of the month.

I still have my drivers side front brake that was giving me issues last year we need to figure out, but that will be last on the list, and hopefully won't stop anything from getting buttoned up on schedule.

Fastbird

05-17-2013, 07:53 PM

Just a little bit of work today.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0883_zps76900a08.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0883_zps76900a08.jpg.html)

Just gotta get the fans in. Tomorrow will probably be a thrash after work. I plan to mow the lawn first, and after that........probably get fans in, temp sensors into the heads, exhaust bolted up, intake manifold on, and probably will start working on clearancing the LT4 valve covers for the shaft mounts.

Ben, when you come over on Sunday, bring an oil pan. I only have one and it's full of coolant, and you've drawn the lucky pleasure of dealing with your oil filter and it's shrouded by the header self. I don't want to screw with it. :D

CALL911

05-17-2013, 08:01 PM

I'll be your grease monkey.

Yeah, the access to the oil filter really sucks with the Kooks headers. I have only found 1 oil filter that will fit, and it takes a lot of finagling to change it. The only good news is, I have done it before.

In any event, I'm your Huckleberry.

Fastbird

05-17-2013, 08:16 PM

CALL911

05-17-2013, 08:41 PM

I'll bring it. Will we need anything else?

Fastbird

05-17-2013, 08:46 PM

Don't think so.

Chris

05-17-2013, 08:51 PM

That motor just looks like it's rready to ruin some people's night at a stop light. The rockers the brakes. Spoiler

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

CALL911

05-17-2013, 09:46 PM

I do have a question though; should I stick with my current Map sensor (I think I am running a 2 bar)? Or should I go with a 3 bar?

Found a good deal on a 3 bar here> http://www.efisource.com/shop/gm-style-3-bar-map-sensor-w-pigtail/

I know Mike was trying to sell me on going with the 3 bar. He said that although the tune would take longer (and as a result cost more) that it would be much more spot on than a 2 bar.

But if I will run good on a 2 bar, I may just stick with it.

CALL911

05-17-2013, 09:53 PM

Shoot, looking back at some emails, it seems Mike thinks I was running off a 1 bar Map sensor. I am definately going to upgrade to at least a 2 bar (part # 12615136).

When I come over on Sunday, help remind me to try and find what exact Map sensor I have on the car, and we can decide from there.

firebird_1995

05-17-2013, 09:54 PM

I'm looking into that myself now. JPack has told me that the 2 bar is going to give me issues with my dfi. I don't plan on going higher than 15# but I guess a little less resolution is a good thing?

Fastbird

05-17-2013, 10:07 PM

Ben you're on a factory map sensor. Get a 3Bar and bring it with you to the dyno.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

CALL911

05-17-2013, 10:14 PM

Roger that, I'll order up the 3 bar. Will I need anything to make it adapt to my setup? Or is it a simple plug and play?

I also need to shoot Mike another message. We are scheduled for first thing in the morning, but he said before that he may need to drive to Luisiana later that day. I need to make sure he's cool with spending the extra time on the tune.

CALL911

05-17-2013, 10:17 PM

I'm looking into that myself now. JPack has told me that the 2 bar is going to give me issues with my dfi. I don't plan on going higher than 15# but I guess a little less resolution is a good thing?

To my limited understanding, its like comparing my 24x LS1 PCM setup to a FAST XFI. There is just a lot more info coming from the better unit. More info = more information to better dial in a tune.

The downside is with a 3 bar you are starting from square 1 on the tune, and it will take a long time.

Fastbird

05-17-2013, 10:58 PM

blackbirdws6

05-18-2013, 06:17 AM

I would ask the tuner about a 2 or 3 bar sensor. You are running 15lbs right now and likely less with the bigger heads. 2 bar would seem to be the better fit but stick with what the tuner says. I would have needed to swap the three pin map connector if I went to the 2 bar but I'm on the green plug with the 3 bar. The cutouts are just a little different inside the sensor. I bought mine and the Delphi depin tool from EFI Conn.

CALL911

05-18-2013, 07:23 PM

All said and done, I'm going with a 2 bar map sensor. Got with the tuner today, and its what he recommended.

Sounds like we hit a snag today. Fastbird checked, and with those large shaft mount rockers, it looks like my LT4 valve covers just don't clear them (even with cutting the baffles). I do have the sheet metal valve covers that came with my heads, but then we are left with figuring out where to mount the coil packs. And I am concerned swapping to that style valve cover may cause leaks, and I do NOT want to deal with the car leaking oil.

Off the top of my head, Canton is the only one who makes valve covers I know will clear, but I have heard of people having issues with them leaking as well, so Sean is doing some research to try and figure out a good solution.

In a purely coincidental situation, it seems Fastbird really wants my LT4 valve covers for his car, so they are already sold to him (if anyone was wondering if I would be putting them up for sale). What I will be putting up for sale shortly after the tune will be my 60# injectors.

Fastbird

05-18-2013, 07:25 PM

More work today, but hit a MAJOR snafu. Got the radiator in, fans in, all radiator hoses connected. Put the steam pipe on with new seals, Napa Part number 704-1093 are perfect fits. Had to get creative, as the PCM ECT on the prior setup was relocated from the water pump to the passenger head, which I'd forgotten about. SO I had to get the plug out of the head. Fortunately, there was room for a 5/16" hex socket......only. And of course, no allen wrenches at home. But.......this worked:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0884_zps4b2624c9.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0884_zps4b2624c9.jpg.html)

An 8mm ratcheting wrench on the 5/16 hex socket head. So got both temp sensors in too. And now for the snafu.

Started clearancing the LT4 valve covers for the shaft mounts. Was making great headway, got it all cleared to fit over the shaft.....then.......well, it didn't sit down all the way. Notice the white spots?

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0886_zps1378406a.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0886_zps1378406a.jpg.html)

Tharr be clearance issues. The valvetrain was disinclined to acquiesce my request that the LT4 valve covers fit. [/piratetalk] Those hit spots are with the valve cover still at least 1/3 an inch from sitting on the head rail. At peak lift, I measured in excess of 2.5" of height above the head rail. The LT4 covers have nowhere near that height.

Fortunately, Ben has valve covers already. UNFORTUNATELY, we now have to find a way to mount the coil packs. Depending on what I can come up with, they might be on the valve covers still (if I can make standoffs that tie into the perimeter bolts the new valve covers have), could be remote mounted, hidden, I dunno. But we gotta figure out something quick, cause time's running out!

*edit* I just thought of something that would look f-ing sweet. Custom coil bracket with two ears to mount to the top of the intake elbow 4150 carb flange. Have them closely spaced, angled down at about 30*................Ben we may need to hit a hardware store tomorrow and get some metal, I've got a band saw we can use to cut it.

CamaroZGuy

05-18-2013, 07:36 PM

THANK YOU!!!! i almost forgot about the dam steam pipe!

Fastbird

05-18-2013, 07:40 PM

THANK YOU!!!! i almost forgot about the dam steam pipe!

LMAO! Why is there coolant pouring out of my new motor!!!!!!!!

firebird_1995

05-18-2013, 08:06 PM

Do you think a machined spacer could be made to raise the valve covers? I've thought about this before (and there may already be some on the market) but it would require 2 gaskets which I suppose doubles your chance of leaks..... eh nevermind.

CALL911

05-18-2013, 08:19 PM

From the sounds of things, they are not clearing on the sides as well as the top. So leaks aside, the spacers would not work. Fortunately, we do have the big valve covers that will clear, and Fastbird and I have an idea of where we can mount the coils near the intake which we will address in the morning.

REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO WRENCHING TOMORROW!!

blackbirdws6

05-18-2013, 08:38 PM

Ouch.. What does he want for the lt4's? Lol

Fastbird

05-18-2013, 08:42 PM

Ouch.. What does he want for the lt4's? Lol

They're spoken for. ;)

CALL911

05-18-2013, 08:46 PM

blackbirdws6

05-18-2013, 08:59 PM

They're spoken for. ;)
Understood. So they really don't fit huh? Convenient ;)

i actually don't have any issues with my cantons except they are generally oversized. Always had a soft spot for LT4s especially with the trim kit.

Fastbird

05-18-2013, 09:03 PM

Understood. So they really don't fit huh? Convenient ;)

Hey now, I've got proof!!!! :D No, I tried to make them work, I really did, hence the cut support brackets for clearance. Part of me is giddy at finally having the possibility of a set of LT4 covers, but i"d have preferred they worked on Ben's car.
CALL911

Here's your gaskets. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-vs12869t/applications/make/chevrolet?prefilter=1 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-vs12869t/applications/make/chevrolet?prefilter=1) DO NOT order them yet, I believe we can find them locally.

CALL911

05-18-2013, 09:11 PM

I won't order them yet, but we will check local prices. As things look, I'm probably going to have to make a summit order anyways to get new plug wires, so if there's a price difference I may get these gaskets as well. Depending on if my 2 bar map sensor I got from a member on eBay can be shipped or not, I may get the 2 bar map sensor also.

Fastbird

05-18-2013, 09:56 PM

You'll probably have to order from summit. The local ones seem to be the regular permadry and I want you to use the Permadryplus gaskets.

CALL911

05-18-2013, 10:02 PM

Roger that rubber duck.

We will try to get a good list of anything we may need from summit then, and perhaps Ill make the order later in the day so it gets shipped out first thing Monday morning.

popo8

05-18-2013, 10:42 PM

I have to re-iderate that Sean is not charging me for doing all this work (okay so we did have a deal in which I sanded down and totally refinished a table for him in exchange).

That being said, I'm not going to straight up give him the valve covers as I paid a pretty penny for them, but he really wants them, so as a curtosy he will get them at a fair price.

First.. let me say.. PRETTY PENNY or not... with all he has done to your car... if he wants your vc...he gets your vc for free...... thats how it should be. I would HATE to see what all the work would cost you if you dropped it off for someone to work on for 70-100 bucks an hour.

With that being said... nothing wrong with CANTONS... mine leaked at first... a few minutes in the hands of my body guy with a hammer and they were straighter than an arrow, andddddddd, not a drip.

There is also a trick to the gaskets that have the perimiter bolt holes in them.....but thats just a matter of some rtv in the heads perimeter holes and the metal eyelets in the gasket....

BTW, when Blue Bottle z put my new 9" in my camaro.... I gave him my old 10 bolt with the upgraded axels, dif, dif cover and 4.10 gears for free....... from brake to brake for his TA,

CALL911

05-19-2013, 07:25 AM

Like I said, we already had an agreement that we were both happy with. I would say that I had as much time striping down and finishing Sean's table as he will in my Z when it's all finished.

Sean and I have been good friends for years. He has helped me out in times of need many times before, and I have done the same for hiim in times of need as well. I don't believe either of us are in debt to the other.

Fastbird

05-19-2013, 01:36 PM

Larry, I know he could move these things in a heartbeat for what I'd gonna pay for them. It's all good. He is buying me a new cam for my setup too for the work I'm doing.

speaking of work:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0887_zpsec3cd13e.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0887_zpsec3cd13e.jpg.html)

It's getting there. We're actually fairly close to buttoning up. Intake manifold went on without issue. Ben took the valve covers and coil brackets with him, is taking them to one of his friends who's got a tig and we're going to have the coil brackets tacked to the valve covers. it's getting close!!!

CALL911

05-19-2013, 02:31 PM

I came over and turned some wrenches as well today. First thing, I replaced that broken vacuum canister with a new one. This alone depending on the switch valve could have cause some leaks.

http://i41.tinypic.com/33njh35.jpg

Next, I swapped out for my new bump stops. As you can see my old ones were quite past the destroyed stage.
http://i40.tinypic.com/f1w0o5.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/15n4okh.jpg

I also drained the old oil, and replaced the old filter, and greased up 1 of my two suspension bearings. Hopefully my buddy Chris can help us out and get the valve covers modded so the coil brackets fit up nice.

CALL911

05-20-2013, 10:35 PM

Made an order with Summit today, and got some new wires coming (which kinda sucks seeing as how my current wires are still pretty new).

My buddy Chris (same one who did all my aluminum fab work on my elbow and piping) got my brackets fitted up to the new valve covers very nicely tonight. I'll post some pics tomorrow after I clean them up a little.

Wednesday will be the 1 week away point from the dyno tune, and with luck we should be ready to turn key that day, and hear the beast awaken :devil:

CALL911

05-21-2013, 09:23 AM

Hath their no greater feeling than when the delivery truck pulls up with car parts! :veryhappy:

http://i43.tinypic.com/204g1k.jpg

So, valve cover porn time! :drool:

http://i41.tinypic.com/30kgm5j.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/a9mtmg.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/5yccww.jpg

Chris did an excellent job (as always). I didn't even ask him to, but he threaded it so the coil rack can be removed which is nice.

I'll be dropping all this off to Fastbird later today on my way into work.

More to follow...

Fastbird

05-21-2013, 07:40 PM

I am so sick and tired of this shit. Whoever made these valve covers is a goddamn idiot. The only bolt lengths that work are 3 1/4 and 3 3/4 UNDERHEAD lengths. And of course, 3 of the long ones and 1 of the shorts ones is present. Can't go shorter, won't engage in the head. Can't go longer, will bottom out in the head. For fucks sake I want this car done and out of my damn hair, it's taking up all of my free time at this point and I'm fed up!

CALL911

05-21-2013, 08:51 PM

What exact sizes and how many of each do we need? I've got a couple hardware stores near me that have lots of misc. hard to find hardware.

Fastbird

05-21-2013, 09:04 PM

Ben, I need 3 x 3 1/4" bolts, socket cap, 1/4" x 20 thread pitch, and 1 x 3 3/4" bolt, socket cap, 1/4" x 20 thread pitch. The valve cover bolts. Good luck finding them, even Fastenal hardly carries them, and closest one with any is Indy.

CALL911

05-21-2013, 09:06 PM

The other thing we could do (even if its, just for the time being) is use a spacer at the top to maybe get a normal length bolt until we can get the exact size.

firebird_1995

05-21-2013, 09:12 PM

Can you get the next size bigger than what you need and cut it down?

blackbirdws6

05-22-2013, 12:10 AM

http://www.mcmaster.com/#92196A555
http://www.mcmaster.com/#92196A557

Call and order them. I get most of my stuff same or next day.

CALL911

05-22-2013, 06:28 AM

Can you get the next size bigger than what you need and cut it down?

I thought about this as well, and perhaps if what I have in mind with some spacers doesn't work, we can do this.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#92196A555
http://www.mcmaster.com/#92196A557

Call and order them. I get most of my stuff same or next day.

Sweet! Thanks for the links. Its good to have more options, and at minimum, we will probably want the correct size at some point anyways, so we could order them and have them soon even if we figure something out temporarily for now.

popo8

05-22-2013, 02:20 PM

http://i43.tinypic.com/358ndw6.jpg

ROTATE please.

JCzNova

05-22-2013, 02:23 PM

ROTATE please. @CALL411

I almost dropped my monitor at work trying to.... j/k

Fastbird

05-22-2013, 02:32 PM

Try this, I took it.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0888_zps47d6b2d2.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0888_zps47d6b2d2.jpg.html)

Damn these valve covers are HUGE! We're down to the end though. Gotta tighten the exhaust, put the alternator on, make new plug wires and install them, plug in the fans, plug in the couple of random sensors, install the elbow and associated harness plugs, fluids, torque wheels, and be done!

popo8

05-22-2013, 02:48 PM

I almost dropped my monitor at work trying to.... j/k

Hahahahahahaah

Try this, I took it.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0888_zps47d6b2d2.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0888_zps47d6b2d2.jpg.html)

Damn these valve covers are HUGE! We're down to the end though. Gotta tighten the exhaust, put the alternator on, make new plug wires and install them, plug in the fans, plug in the couple of random sensors, install the elbow and associated harness plugs, fluids, torque wheels, and be done!

MUCH BETTER!!! lookin good

Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

CALL911

05-22-2013, 03:46 PM

Thats what I get for trying to post it via my phone. I'll delete the post, sorry.

...got the map sensor in the mail.

popo8

05-22-2013, 03:48 PM

Thats what I get for trying to post it via my phone. I'll delete the post, sorry.

...got the map sensor in the mail.

LOL... its cool. Entertainment.

CALL911

05-22-2013, 08:55 PM

So, I got a few more misc. items out of the way. I removed and cleaned the air filter (still need to clean my MAF), I installed my new shifter boot, and the big item was I managed to get some spacers Sean cut down for the larger bolts to fit properly so Sean could get the valve covers on.

I also got some exhaust back on (although not all the way). Not a whole lot left which is a good thing because there is now less than a week from the dyno tune.

popo8

05-22-2013, 09:13 PM

JCzNova

05-22-2013, 09:18 PM

Thats what I get for trying to post it via my phone. I'll delete the post, sorry.

...got the map sensor in the mail.

It's those damn pilots. Sometimes they just wanna see everything upside down!

CALL911

05-23-2013, 05:29 AM

I still want to see it all together. That intake looks mean.

It's close to looking complete under the hood. I really like the look of my super Vic intake, but when everything is together under the hood, you can barely see it.

It's those damn pilots. Sometimes they just wanna see everything upside down!

You ain't livin' until you've been upside down in the air!

Fastbird

05-23-2013, 06:01 PM

I am not touching the car tonight. I had a flipping horrible day at work and am just burnt out.

CALL911

05-23-2013, 09:57 PM

I am not touching the car tonight. I had a flipping horrible day at work and am just burnt out.

Sleep tight my friend. I hope tomorrow is better for you.

Fastbird

05-24-2013, 08:34 PM

Ah, nothing beats a fresh set of plug wires.......and this damn crimper, for as expensive as it is, is worth it's weight in gold!

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0890_zps6a2e11e7.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens%2096%20Z28/AFR%20227%20Upgrade/IMAG0890_zps6a2e11e7.jpg.html)

Got the exhaust banged back on tonight courtesy of my Ingersoll Rang 118Max air hammer and a flat bit (and a two by four piece for safety).

CALL911

05-24-2013, 08:47 PM

Looking good. Looking very very good!

Fastbird

05-26-2013, 01:47 PM

ITS ALIVE!!!! Muahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

But it ain't driving under it's own power. It's moving a metric shit ton of air and with any throttle input spikes the wide band at 21. This is gonna be one BAD mother. Just gotta trailer it down on Wednesday. Admittedly, I'm kind of surprised it picked that much airflow up. I figured it would at least be driveable. Good sign!!!

Flyinz

05-26-2013, 02:48 PM

Dumb question, but what all did you change, since you tore it apart?

popo8

05-26-2013, 03:07 PM

CALL911

05-26-2013, 04:39 PM

Dumb question, but what all did you change, since you tore it apart?

Dumb answer (the details are all in this thread). ;)

Short answer = swapped the heads

Awesome...cant wait for weds nite update!

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

Will do Larry!

CALL911

05-26-2013, 05:04 PM

...video uploading

CALL911

05-26-2013, 05:16 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pKc3Ihe6ug&feature=youtu.be

Fastbird

05-26-2013, 06:07 PM

FYI, in the vid you can clearly hear a rocker tapping. It has cleared up. Couple of the lifters had bled down after lashing them apparently.

The car sounds freaking SICK when revved and just moving air with the TIAL bov on the car.

popo8

05-26-2013, 06:43 PM

Sounds awesome!!

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

blackbirdws6

05-26-2013, 07:22 PM

Sounds pretty good. Good luck with the tune.

Flyinz

05-26-2013, 09:36 PM

Ah, somebody had to ask it. Hell, I couldn't remember either and I wasn't going to go back through the thread, lol.

popo8

05-26-2013, 09:45 PM

24x
Afr 227s
New intake
And some troublee shooting

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

Flyinz

05-26-2013, 09:55 PM

That elbow looks great in there and looks like a pretty tight fit. That should HAUL the mail..

CALL911

05-26-2013, 10:10 PM

The only thing different since we pulled it apart was the AFR 227's (okay, and some different valve covers to fit the different heads).

The intake, the elbow, the 24x have all been on since last year. Granted, the car had issues/bugs, but the only thing different this year was changing out my AFR 180's for the AFR 227's.

JCzNova

05-27-2013, 07:47 AM

I'll be waiting for dyno day from the far away land. Flying out to Dubai this afternoon. Gonna try to get some new pics for "Spotted schwag" though.

Fastbird

05-27-2013, 09:20 AM

I'll be waiting for dyno day from the far away land. Flying out to Dubai this afternoon. Gonna try to get some new pics for "Spotted schwag" though.

???? Whatchu going there for?

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

JCzNova

05-27-2013, 10:58 AM

???? Whatchu going there for?

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

To do a command assessment on one of our deployed subordinate units. Their CO got fired, sexual assault and harassment claims, two guys on watch and one beat the other unconscious, fraternization.... Oh and there is the $183 a day per diem.

CALL911

05-27-2013, 01:37 PM

I'll keep the thread up to date. Be care full over there.

popo8

05-27-2013, 08:19 PM

To do a command assessment on one of our deployed subordinate units. Their CO got fired, sexual assault and harassment claims, two guys on watch and one beat the other unconscious, fraternization.... Oh and there is the $183 a day per diem.

Damn.... That sucks for them...good for u.

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

popo8

05-29-2013, 10:47 AM

Its WEDS!!!!!

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

JCzNova

05-29-2013, 12:05 PM

Its WEDS!!!!!

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

It's 9:00P.M. Wednesday !!!

popo8

05-29-2013, 12:30 PM

It's 9:00P.M. Wednesday !!!

Where are u again.... Khandahar is 8.5 hrs ahead (i only know cause thats where my partner is deployed.)

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

JCzNova

05-29-2013, 12:57 PM

Where are u again.... Khandahar is 8.5 hrs ahead (i only know cause thats where my partner is deployed.)

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

Dubai. +8. Straight from the 37th floor! Watching UFC 160 replay for free, BOOM !

Fastbird

05-29-2013, 01:09 PM

OK.......no bueno. Radiator tank cracked, serpentine belt shredded, tps voltage made a strange shift (possible throttle shaft movement), and car was being very unreasonable with lean tip in cuts. Good vacuum, just dead lean with throttle movement. Towing back to my house now, ordering parts today and tomorrow, will be running and driving on Sunday again. Partially tuned so can get it on the road at least. Dropping back with the tuner next week.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

MeanTA

05-29-2013, 01:13 PM

JCzNova

05-29-2013, 01:22 PM

That sucks. Hoping to see some numbers. So i can compare the 227 to 180's. Its going to be a monster when she gets the kinks worked out!

Just check the other thread, I told everyone what the numbers are gonna be :D

popo8

05-29-2013, 01:58 PM

Fastbird

05-29-2013, 05:58 PM

So.......

Radiator leaking at joint of side tank to core. Very very minor until you get the system pressurized, then you get a steady drip. There's some residual there on the right but that's from removing it just now.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0903_zps90947cf5.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0903_zps90947cf5.jpg.html)

Serpentine belt eating itself. This might be the cause........Ben did the alternator get dropped or anything during transit to my place? I only picked up and installed from where you left it on my floor.....or rather you did. I never touched it actually, lol. CLICK THE PIC cause it's a vid.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/th_VIDEO0070_zps43895c28.jpg (http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/VIDEO0070_zps43895c28.mp4)

T-Bolt at the throttlebody is fubar:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0901_zps2235d81e.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0901_zps2235d81e.jpg.html)

And she's back down:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0904_zpsb7069535.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/Fastbird93/media/Builds/Bens 96 Z28/AFR 227 Upgrade/IMAG0904_zpsb7069535.jpg.html)

So gotta find a serpentine belt tomorrow hopefully, ben's ordering a new radiator and AN stuff for the breather tank (Person who initially set it up used proper rubber hose but just zip tied to fittings, converting to true fabbed braided and AN fittings) which will hopefully be delivered to me on Friday. HOPING to have back together running and driving on Sunday.

CALL911

05-29-2013, 06:32 PM

Kandahar = Afghanistan (bad)
Dubai = U.A.E. (not bad)

Yeah, not what I hoped for today. Will post more later.

CALL911

05-29-2013, 06:35 PM

Sean, the alternator should not have been dropped. I couldn't get the video to play, but I am assuming it might be bad? It's fairly old 7-9 years maybe. Do we need to replace that too?

I'll make the Summit order tonight and have everything shipped to your house.

Still have more to comment but not the time right at this moment.

popo8

05-29-2013, 06:38 PM

...

Still have more to comment but not the time right at this moment.

Because ur angry??? If so...take a breather, and relax.... WHEN its said and done it will all have been worth it

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

Fastbird

05-29-2013, 06:49 PM

What do you guys think? Think that alternator would have chewed up the serpentine belt and caused it to come apart?

blackbirdws6

05-29-2013, 07:09 PM

CALL911

05-29-2013, 07:22 PM

Because ur angry??? If so...take a breather, and relax.... WHEN its said and done it will all have been worth it

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

Believe it or not, I am not angry. I just think my car decided today was NOT the day it was to be tuned. I just had a small chance to get in some family time in with my wife and 15 month old son, and didn't have time to elaborate much earlier.

The wobble is slight but at engine speed and higher rpm, I can see it causing as issue. I'm sure you checked but are there any alignment issues due to the new valve covers? Meaning any tweaking on the rear bottom of the alternator.

Did it throw the belt during a power pull or just out of nowhere? If during the power pull, the rapid rpm change and so so tensioner could result in a thrown/torn belt. Just spitballing.

It shred the belt during the one partial WOT dyno pull (that got stopped abruptly when it shred the belt and simultaniously blew off the clamp near the blower).

Like Sean said earlier, it just wasn't a good day for the dyno. I usually replace a bit of things that need replacing, and I sometimes forget other things that aren't broke yet, but probably should be replaced just for their age.

The radiator was the original 18 year old factory radiator, and its time had just came. I think its safe to say we probably know the alternator threw the belt (and the alternator had almost 10 years on it also), and the clamps just needed replacing. Besides all that, CALL911 was being a bitch today on the dyno for the tuner. The tuner really wasn't feeling well (had to stop several times during the tune to hit the bathroom), but he kept at it anyways (just goes to show what kind of guy he is). And on top of that he was having a hard time getting everything figured out with the car and the new MAP sensor in the short period of time he had (he had another car to tune, and a flight he had to catch). He said he just needs a few days with it (after the mechanical parts are fixed) to tune it from the ground up, instead of trying to rush to get it good today. He did get it tuned enough that the car is driveable (how much we won't know until we get the other things fixed). But my hope is that it can do well enough to drive the car to him next week. But, I can get a trailer again if I have to.

This kind of thing should piss me off, but I am not really that mad. I just get that when you do things like this, there are bound to be bugs to be worked out, and its all part of the game. If it were bugs that took a TON of money and or time to fix, then I would probably be more upset. But most things we need are not going to be terribly expensive, and it doesn't sound like it should be too much longer before we get things going. Mike didn't charge me a dime for the time he put into the car today, and said he would feel better about having it for a few days to get 100% on the tune. The only sucky part about that is that I will not be there for the tune which means no video :(, but I'll just be happy when its done.

Fastbird

05-29-2013, 07:34 PM

The wobble is slight but at engine speed and higher rpm, I can see it causing as issue. I'm sure you checked but are there any alignment issues due to the new valve covers? Meaning any tweaking on the rear bottom of the alternator.

Did it throw the belt during a power pull or just out of nowhere? If during the power pull, the rapid rpm change and so so tensioner could result in a thrown/torn belt. Just spitballing.

When we initially assembled, there was just a smidge of contact on an abnormally high weld on the valve cover to the alternator. I clearanced that with a blunt bangy thing and there wasn't any more contact. But even under the flex the VC and Alt are moving together, shouldn't be an issue. Good thought, and something I"ll definitely double check with the new alternator.

Fastbird

05-29-2013, 08:43 PM

Real quick only pull today. You can hear the lean cuts and see the bucking, and REALLY hear the coupler blow off. This was with barely any tuning for power at this point, just start and idle stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7kpo7FFyiY

blackbirdws6

05-29-2013, 09:12 PM

What's with all the smoke?

Fastbird

05-29-2013, 09:16 PM

What's with all the smoke?

Fuel.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

CALL911

05-29-2013, 10:42 PM

Radiator, connectors, ect. from Summit ordered. New TPS sensor, and new alternator to be picked up at Autozone on Friday when they come in. Sean is taking care of the belt, and the clamps that are broke.

blackbirdws6

05-30-2013, 05:15 AM

Fuel.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

Looked white from the video and not the typical black look from a rich condition. Only reason why I asked.

shownomercy

05-30-2013, 09:13 AM

Looked white from the video and not the typical black look from a rich condition. Only reason why I asked.

Yea, kinda makes sense, if a HG is bad, you are pressurizing the coolant and that would/could explain the sudden leak from radiator.

Any chance you checked the plugs to see or maybe do a leakdown test? Would suck to lose the motor when you have the chance to check things.

Fastbird

05-30-2013, 01:27 PM

It ain't a head gasket. It didn't smoke at all unless he was stabbing the throttle and Mike said he had a ton of fuel in it trying to compensate for the lean tip in cut. I think you're seeing it get washed out by the light that's directly behind the car. Ben can attest too it was definitely black smoke.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

CALL911

05-30-2013, 02:18 PM

+2 on not a head gasket. Yeah, she was FAT on the dyno. I also think the video is misleading as it was very bright outside.

CALL911

06-02-2013, 09:40 AM

After looking at things, I believe we know what was shredding the belt. It seems the alternator was hitting the valve cover and when the engine torqued under load it was enough to shred the belt.

So, my alternator was fine. But I replaced it anyways just due to its age.

Fastbird grinded the new alternator to clear the valve covers and we should be in good shape as far as the belt goes.

http://i40.tinypic.com/95wt1t.jpg

...continuing to wrench

*fixed upsidedown pic for the invertedly challenged

Fastbird

06-02-2013, 12:43 PM

Yes, I work inverted too! :D

Got the alternator clearance figured out. Took a ton off of the back of the housing, ground down the obtuse welds on the valve covers, but got it fitting right.

I meant to get a pic but I fabbed up a -10 AN line for the breather tank. Looks and fits MUCH better now.

Buttoned everything up, pressure test the system, and found a fucking head stud leaking coolant. So we yanked a valve cover, ripped it out (was the second to last on the lower rail, drivers side, so it was accessible), resealed it, and put it back together. Been sitting for 20+ minutes now at 16 PSI on the cooling system without any bleed down. So it's not a head gasket fokkers, lol.

Gonna take my fam fishing, and put the VC back on the car later and see if it drives.

blackbirdws6

06-02-2013, 04:03 PM

Guess my suggestion was accurate regarding the alternator to valve cover clearance. ;).

CALL911

06-02-2013, 04:35 PM

sigh, sorry for the 2nd upsidedown pic. Again, I tried doing it via cell phone and again it was upside down (don't know why it does that).

At any rate, here is Sean working on the head bolt.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2yphydz.jpg

On top of fixing the leak and getting the new alternator clearanced, we got the new TPS sensor installed, and the new radiator in. My hope is that Sean can button things up tonight and that if everything is driveable, get a solid day or two of driving it to make sure its good to take back to the tuner on Wednesday.

Fastbird

06-02-2013, 06:29 PM

Guess my suggestion was accurate regarding the alternator to valve cover clearance. ;).

That was a VERY good call. On closer inspection the actual body of the alternator has to be clearanced. It looked like it was bolting on right but what we couldn't see was the bottom bottoming out against the valve cover. Some hulk smash and dremel touch work later and it lined up nicely.

So.....kept the pressure tester on it while we went fishing for a few hours. Had over 5 hours on the tester........lost all of 1lb of pressure which is plenty fine by any standards. Buttoned her up and....well. Cold start up was a biotch......fuel just dumping through. But as soon as she started warming up, smoothed right out! Took her for a test drive, and other than the god awful lean tip in making smooth shifting difficult, the car will be driven the next two days to work and back to put some cycles on everything. Ben buddy, I am very hopeful we're good to go on wednesday.

Oh, and any pics with me were taken with a wide angle lens that adds 80 lbs.

CALL911

06-02-2013, 06:46 PM

Guess my suggestion was accurate regarding the alternator to valve cover clearance. ;).

+1 on the very good call!

CALL911

06-02-2013, 06:48 PM

That was a VERY good call. On closer inspection the actual body of the alternator has to be clearanced. It looked like it was bolting on right but what we couldn't see was the bottom bottoming out against the valve cover. Some hulk smash and dremel touch work later and it lined up nicely.

So.....kept the pressure tester on it while we went fishing for a few hours. Had over 5 hours on the tester........lost all of 1lb of pressure which is plenty fine by any standards. Buttoned her up and....well. Cold start up was a biotch......fuel just dumping through. But as soon as she started warming up, smoothed right out! Took her for a test drive, and other than the god awful lean tip in making smooth shifting difficult, the car will be driven the next two days to work and back to put some cycles on everything. Ben buddy, I am very hopeful we're good to go on wednesday.

Oh, and any pics with me were taken with a wide angle lens that adds 80 lbs.

Fantastic! Just keep an eye on the wideband, and don't let her get too lean. I can always go through the hassle of getting another trailer if I have to. I'd rather drive it if its safe to do so, but the important thing is that we keep it safe.

BTW, the camera just makes your hands look fat ;)

Fastbird

06-02-2013, 07:51 PM

Ben other than the tip-in, it was staying in the 14-15.5 range for idle/light throttle. Safe enough to putt around on.

popo8

06-02-2013, 07:57 PM

Ben other than the tip-in, it was staying in the 14-15.5 range for idle/light throttle. Safe enough to putt around on.

Hell, I go leaner than that if I go to pull out without enough throttle.. its only a blink, but as soon as Im moving, she gets the fuel she needs.

CALL911

06-02-2013, 10:10 PM

Well 14.7-15.0 is where I would like to see it at idle and holding speed fully tuned. So if its there now, we should be in good shape.

popo8

06-05-2013, 06:29 AM

2day is the day CALL911 gets dropped off again...right?

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

JCzNova

06-05-2013, 08:40 AM

2day is the day CALL911 gets dropped off again...right?

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

Either the car gets dropped off or this thread does :protest:

:laugh: It's almost 5pm, tick tock.

popo8

06-05-2013, 08:44 AM

Either the car gets dropped off or this thread does :protest:

:laugh: It's almost 5pm, tick tock.

Lol... Only 10am here.

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

CALL911

06-05-2013, 09:55 AM

Just dropped it off 20 minutes ago :)

popo8

06-05-2013, 10:00 AM

Just dropped it off 20 minutes ago :)

Goodluck...did he give ANY idea how many days?

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

MeanTA

06-05-2013, 10:02 AM

Just dropped it off 20 minutes ago :)

Can't wait to hear the numbers!

JCzNova

06-05-2013, 10:38 AM

Can't wait to hear the numbers!

I already told everyone the numbers.

JCzNova

06-05-2013, 10:40 AM

popo8

What do you think? Put a thread up for official guesses. Closest gets a t-shirt and sticker. Everyone that wants to officially guess, agrees to donate $1 per HP they were off to the site, with a max of $10 ?

JCzNova

06-05-2013, 10:41 AM

@popo8 (http://ltxtech.com/forums/member.php?u=1330)

What do you think? Put a thread up for official guesses. Closest gets a t-shirt and sticker. Everyone that wants to officially guess, agrees to donate $1 per HP they were off to the site, with a max of $10 ?

*** i know would have been a better thought a week ago ***

popo8

06-05-2013, 11:57 AM

Yeah.. I think we are to close to results (I hope) and I dont want to JINX the health of the car either....

It would def need some more fine tuning, but not a bad idea...

CALL911

06-05-2013, 01:26 PM

Goodluck...did he give ANY idea how many days?

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

Thanks for the good luck wishes.

He seemed to think he would at least be able to start no later than Friday and finish no later than next Wednesday, maybe earlier.

CALL911

06-07-2013, 01:06 PM

Spoke to the tuner. It seems he is having an issue with my Arizona Speed and Marine TB. The TB plate is moving its own, and not holding its position. He is getting different voltage from the new TPS sensor even when the car is off and he just has the ignition on. I called AS&M, and they said the had the problem come up on other supercharged cars, and they now run a stronger spring, but it doesn't really explain the TB movement when the car is off.

At any rate, Mike said he would call them and try to figure out what is going on. He wants to get the idle figured out and the car running well on its own before he can make any dyno pulls with it.

blackbirdws6

06-07-2013, 01:30 PM

I wonder when they changed to the heavier spring. No issues with mine but my old Holley liked to stick a bit after using the throttle. I had to kick the pedal to get it to slam shut.

popo8

06-07-2013, 02:01 PM

CALL911

06-07-2013, 03:06 PM

My tuner actually modified mine because it was bugging out. I think mine had some slip in the shaft.....

I am hoping my tuner gets something figured out with them also. I hate having things get held up any further than they have already. It would be nice if my tuner could also modify it to work, and not have to take the TB out and ship it to AS&M to be fixed and sent back.

AS&M said they went to the heavier spring a few years ago, which depending on when exactly it was, I may or may not have the heavier spring. But even then, my tuner is saying it is moving when NO air is moving (when the car is off), so I guess we'll see what the end result is. Hopefully it doesn't take too long.

Fastbird

06-07-2013, 03:31 PM

Well I guess even the best tb's need some love to be set up right. Don't even ask what I have gone through with my bbk piece, lol. Good to see mike is getting on it already.

Posted from my Rooted and ICS'd Rezound

CALL911

06-07-2013, 03:50 PM

Its kind of a PITA to spend THAT much on a TB and have issues with it. Mike didn't seem too pleased to have to call them and figure it out.

I'm just gonna wait for him to call me and see what the deal is.

blackbirdws6

06-07-2013, 05:04 PM

Its kind of a PITA to spend THAT much on a TB and have issues with it.

I agree completely.

CALL911

06-07-2013, 05:29 PM

At this point I just really want the car running. To the extent, if I need to do something silly like go buy another non mono blade 58mm TB I will. I'm not going to bug Mike though. He said he would call AS&M so I figure if he needs something from me, he will ask. At the same time, I'm on pins and needles waiting for something, anything, news, or something I can do to move this thing forward and get it done.

Flyinz

06-08-2013, 09:26 PM

When I first switched over to my MonoBlade TB, they had a small issue tuning with it..Something along the lines, that it wouldn't move enough air, at idle. SO, they had to drill a 1/8" hole (i think) in the blade. Since that and the tuning, it idles like factory.

CALL911

06-08-2013, 09:33 PM

It has a allen head screw on it that allows it to be adjustable to let in air. My problem is the whole plate will uncommandingly change position making it impossible to get a good idle. I don't think air flow is the issue with mine.

Gonna give him till Wed-Thurs this week before I call to see how it is going. Hopefully he calls me before then.

I really hate having spent that much on that TB to have those issues. Especially when I already had a perfectly good working 58mm TB before. Just the monoblade cfm was a lot higher. Mike told me he thought it wouldn't even matter which really makes me wish I stuck with my previous one.

popo8

06-08-2013, 09:46 PM

Flyinz

06-08-2013, 10:00 PM

You dont still have your old TB do ya?

shownomercy

06-08-2013, 10:02 PM

popo8

06-08-2013, 10:40 PM

No offense, but the monoblade has been notorious for causing issues with boosted engines, I would honestly just ditch it or rig up a heavier return spring to help snap it shut, and or lesson the BOV Spring.

Mine has no issues.. other than the shaft slip which was corrected... tuner had no probs with it.....

CALL911

06-09-2013, 07:38 AM

Call as&m.... Complain and see if they will drop ship a replacement to ur tuner.

Co-Owner/Admin @ LTXtech.com

I did talk to AS&M. They said I could send the TB back to them, but they wouldn't straight up ship me a new one. Thats when my tuner decided to talk with them directly and figure something out.

You dont still have your old TB do ya?

I really wish I did. It was a LPE unit that was REALLY nice and expensive. I sold it though, and they are discontinued now.

No offense, but the monoblade has been notorious for causing issues with boosted engines, I would honestly just ditch it or rig up a heavier return spring to help snap it shut, and or lesson the BOV Spring.

It's funny you say this. AS&M actually said they have had issues with supercharged setups on their TB's. I think I mentioned this before, but they replaced the spring to a heavier unit and that supposedly fixed the issues. However, I don't know that a heavier spring will fix the issue my tuner is having.

When I decided to go the AS&M monoblade route, all I saw was the incredible CFM it produced (much more than the LS1 style TB's which with my intake was another route I could have taken).

shownomercy

06-09-2013, 03:29 PM

Mine has no issues.. other than the shaft slip which was corrected... tuner had no probs with it.....

I did talk to AS&M. They said I could send the TB back to them, but they wouldn't straight up ship me a new one. Thats when my tuner decided to talk with them directly and figure something out.

I really wish I did. It was a LPE unit that was REALLY nice and expensive. I sold it though, and they are discontinued now.

It's funny you say this. AS&M actually said they have had issues with supercharged setups on their TB's. I think I mentioned this before, but they replaced the spring to a heavier unit and that supposedly fixed the issues. However, I don't know that a heavier spring will fix the issue my tuner is having.

When I decided to go the AS&M monoblade route, all I saw was the incredible CFM it produced (much more than the LS1 style TB's which with my intake was another route I could have taken).

I just know that way back when I was running a heads/cam setup, the monoblade when I searched for info came up as being iffy when used with boosted apps. The one thread I could find on it suggested lowering the BOV spring and seeing what happens when you go from a pull to no boost all of a sudden.

Hope you get it worked out

CALL911

06-09-2013, 03:52 PM

I just know that way back when I was running a heads/cam setup, the monoblade when I searched for info came up as being iffy when used with boosted apps. The one thread I could find on it suggested lowering the BOV spring and seeing what happens when you go from a pull to no boost all of a sudden.

Hope you get it worked out

It'll get figured out. Not sure if the heavier spring will fix it, or it takes something else. I'm committed to getting it fixed to the point I'd even get a new non-monoblade TB to get it fixed. I just hope it doesn't take too long. I got things I want to do with the car besides enjoy it this summer (like the Michigan Mile event on the 4th of July weekend which is coming up).