What Is Safer Spray Or Boost

[Emerald_Z]

On a stock lt1 bottom end?

Plan is full exhaust/intake/cam

Then to put on a supercharger or a bottle to attain my goal of 420hp.

Alot of people tell me with a bottle it all about the tune and fueling. I just wanted to get your guys opinions.

[Z28pr0jekt]

Safe is all relative to the tune.

When it comes to boost what factors into safety aside from the tune, is how large of a turbo/supercharger (and how much boost being attained) relative to your compression ratio and internals.

Compression ratio and internals do factor into nitrous as well however, small shots are more tolerable.

The other concern is your fueling capabilities. Basically the question you are asking is extremely open ended. Tune is one of the major factors in being "safe."

Usually when it comes down to boost or nitrous, monetary concerns are more prominent. Nitrous will be cheaper in the short run however, after refilling bottles over and over again the cost goes up. This also happens when you start getting into more tech with nitrous such as bottle heaters and progressive controllers.

Boost is a high expense from the start requiring 2bar/3bar/4bar tunes which can be tricky.


When it comes to your goal, you are stating 420 hp which say through a strict drivetrain is about 340whp. This can be made cam only fairly simply with the right sized cam and a decent tune, no power adder needed.

Now if what you meant was 420whp then this can be made with a very good heads cam setup with no stroker motor or power adder needed. Initial costs will be higher than nitrous in doing this because heads/headwork isn't necessarily cheap but in the long run with not having to refill bottles or worry about a tune for boost it will be cheaper than a boosted setup and equal out to a low level nitrous setup.

If 420whp were my goal, I'd go NA with a very good head cam setup spec'd by AI or LE

[SexyTransAm]

to keep it short ill just say spray with a spot on tune

[95ImpySS]

to keep it short ill just say spray with a spot on tune

Maybe progressively controlled spray. I would imagine that a 100 or 150 shot coming on instantly would be more harsh to the engine than boost building in a few thousand RPM. I could be wrong but that's my understanding.


I would recommend progressively controlled spray over boost on a stock bottom end engine. Of course making sure the ignition system is in tip top shape, running a timing retard box, colder plugs, WOT & FP Safety switch's and larger fuel pump.... Build the engine for boost and do it right the first time. Maybe that's just me talking. Doing builds back to back can get old after a wile. IMO 420 at the wheels is going to be pushing the longevity of the stock rods and rod bots IMO. Stock crank could take that all day....

[Emerald_Z]

Thanks for the opinions guys, Projekt, Im referring to whp. Heads and a cam may be my best option then, however, I can see that costing roughly around 4k where a supercharger with cam would run around 3k. So I guess my next question would be, what heads and cam would be needed to attain such goals, and what kind of costs am I looking at?

Im not against going all motor, however I didnt realize 420 was attainable to the wheels without touching the bottom end.

[Z28pr0jekt]

Maybe progressively controlled spray. I would imagine that a 100 or 150 shot coming on instantly would be more harsh to the engine than boost building in a few thousand RPM. I could be wrong but that's my understanding.


I would recommend progressively controlled spray over boost on a stock bottom end engine. Of course making sure the ignition system is in tip top shape, running a timing retard box, colder plugs, WOT & FP Safety switch's and larger fuel pump.... Build the engine for boost and do it right the first time. Maybe that's just me talking. Doing builds back to back can get old after a wile. IMO 420 at the wheels is going to be pushing the longevity of the stock rods and rod bots IMO. Stock crank could take that all day....

You are correct about the rods and bolts. I feel that the rods could take that power level as long as you are not spinning the motor too high but the rod bolts should definitely be changed.

[popo8]

.....where a supercharger with cam would run around 3k. ....


Please dont fool yourself and think that ANY FI build (no matter how "left alone" you leave the motor) will run around $3k...

And if you can make that happen.... start building another motor a while....

[Emerald_Z]

Please dont fool yourself and think that ANY FI build (no matter how "left alone" you leave the motor) will run around $3k...

And if you can make that happen.... start building another motor a while....

Not that Im looking to argue, but perhaps more of a explanation is needed, I can buy a used vortech kit for around 2k, strap it on, tune it, and go, can I not?

And thunder racing offers complete cam kits including springs/retainers and all parts needed for around $800

[95ImpySS]

Please dont fool yourself and think that ANY FI build (no matter how "left alone" you leave the motor) will run around $3k...

And if you can make that happen.... start building another motor a while....

Popo has a point. My heads and valve train were pushing 3k alone and they are nothing special. My baby engine cost about 5k.

I would recommend AI's 190cc LT1 heads/cam combo for your stock bottom end. http://advancedinduction.com/LTX/AiLTx190ccStrtStrpHead.php
If you decide to stroke it go with the 200cc heads.

IMO, if you want 420 WHP, you need big heads, and cubes. Preferably 4340 or better rods, with ARP rod bolts. If you want to make 420WHP on your stock bottom end, your going to need to spin it to the moon and have a 175-200 shot.

You get what you pay for. LT1's some how, cost a decent chunk to make right. I personally wouldn't try to make 420WHP on a stock un touched bottom end. The fun wont last long.


EDIT: To elaborate Emerald_Z, You can strap on the vortech, add bigger injectors, fuel pump and a tune. But I don't think the engine will last long above 3-5lbs. Which is not going to net you 420WHP. Boost engines work better with lower compression. The LT1 is roughly 10.5:1. 9:1 or 8:1 would make more power and last longer.

You could do the same thing with n2o. (MUCH cheaper BTW) Add on a large kit and hit the track. You could spray it all the way to 500 WHP. Maybe once... But the fact of the matter is the engine is used, and should really be checked out/upgraded to take more than double the HP it came from factory with.

[gunters96lt1]

I hit mine with a 125pill with ngk tr6 plus and good fuel, no timing. But i think i got lucky. Now i have a aeromotive 340, msd digi 6+, 150pill, 110octane fuel. Car runs good and a/f was spot on.

[95ImpySS]

I hit mine with a 125pill with ngk tr6 plus and good fuel, no timing. But i think i got lucky. Now i have a aeromotive 340, msd digi 6+, 150pill, 110octane fuel. Car runs good and a/f was spot on.

I used to hit my 100k mi+ engine with a 100 shot. It lasted a wile, never broke, but got tired fast. I just don't see easily obtaining OP's whp goal and having fun for very long....

[Emerald_Z]

So basically the lt is junk unless you want to spend twice the amount of money building it, as you would a ls. Fml.

[gunters96lt1]

I used to hit my 100k mi+ engine with a 100 shot. It lasted a wile, never broke, but got tired fast. I just don't see easily obtaining OP's whp goal and having fun for very long....

Totally agree.

[gunters96lt1]

So basically the lt is junk unless you want to spend twice the amount of money building it, as you would a ls. Fml.


Yep lol. No but really, heads/cam/spray would be an awesome street combo i think

[95ImpySS]

So basically the lt is junk unless you want to spend twice the amount of money building it, as you would a ls. Fml.

Honestly... yes

LS is a better platform. Totally new design, better aftermarket, better computer, better everything really. LT1 is based of 30+ years of GM small blocks.

[95ImpySS]

Slap a 150 shot on it and go have some fun!!

gunters96lt1 is right. H/C/n2o would be a good combo. If built right, it will last for years. I have a baby 355, h/c, On a base line tune I'm putting down 350WHP through auto tranny. I plan a 150 shot in the future. Should be at 400+WHP on spray, and still have A/C, P/S and be very street able. It should last easily 100k hard driven miles.

[firebird_1995]

Sad but true. Nobody builds and lt1 because its the cheapest option. There's guys running 5-600 rwhp on stock short block 5.3 ls motors with a z06 cam and springs, 15 psi of boost, supporting fuel mods and a tune. If you blow that one up you go to the junk yard and get another for $500 bucks.

[popo8]

Honestly... yes

LS is a better platform. Totally new design, better aftermarket, better computer, better everything really. LT1 is based of 30+ years of GM small blocks.


Sad but true. Nobody builds and lt1 because its the cheapest option. There's guys running 5-600 rwhp on stock short block 5.3 ls motors with a z06 cam and springs, 15 psi of boost, supporting fuel mods and a tune. If you blow that one up you go to the junk yard and get another for $500 bucks.

BLASPHEMY!

[MeanTA]

5.3......... I would stab myself in the neck with a H.I.V. tainted butter knife. Before i ride around in my muscle car with a 5.3. Should just go ahead and get a mustang while Im at it.

[firebird_1995]

I highly doubt you would contract HIV by that method. But seriously, we did some work at a lab that tested blood samples for HIV, the clap, and rabies. He said out of all them the one that he was most afraid of was rabies. He said that HIV dies within minutes of being exposed to air. So let me ask you this.... would you rather drive a 5.3 in your muscle car or stab yourself in the neck with a butterknife THAT HAD FRESHLY BEEN REMOVED FROM MAGIC JOHNSONS NECK??

[popo8]

I highly doubt you would contract HIV by that method. But seriously, we did some work at a lab that tested blood samples for HIV, the clap, and rabies. He said out of all them the one that he was most afraid of was rabies. He said that HIV dies within minutes of being exposed to air. So let me ask you this.... would you rather drive a 5.3 in your muscle car or stab yourself in the neck with a butterknife THAT HAD FRESHLY BEEN REMOVED FROM MAGIC JOHNSONS NECK??


LOL.... MJ doesnt have aids... anymore.

[CamaroZGuy]

So basically the lt is junk unless you want to spend twice the amount of money building it, as you would a ls. Fml.

i would not say that the LT is junk, but it dose take a bit more thinking and planing wile building to attain big power, wile with the LS series any joe bob can through a few $'s at it and make a street car. but the LS community for the most part are stuck up A-Holes! and the LT community is awesome!

[firebird_1995]

I agree with this. And to be honest, its the reason I chose to stay with the lt1 platform on my build.

[94Blackbird]

So basically the lt is junk unless you want to spend twice the amount of money building it, as you would a ls. Fml.


Usually the only reason something is junk is because the guy who put it together doesn't know enough to do it right. You can throw money at something all day long, buy the best of everything yada yada yada, but if the plan and the execution isn't there, then it's going to be junk due to ignorance on the part of the owner, not through any fault of the platform. Yes, an LS has more POTENTIAL (key word there) than anything on the SBC architecture, but put a guy on an SBC that knows his shit and a total newb on an LS, and that SBC is going to spank that LS 7 ways to sunday, probably for less money, because the guy who knows his shit is going to be able to optimize and actually tune the damned thing.

The big picture that is missing here is you believe "just strapping it on and getting it tuned" is going to get the results you desire. Most likely, unless you have a factory freak motor, all that is going to do is leave you somewhere with a rod hanging out the side of the block or a melted piston and junk block. Just to give you an example, my car made 350 at the wheels on 4.5 lbs out of a procharger. the kits normally come set at 8 lbs, but that is territory that is known to rip up ring lands or break stock pistons.

Also, do you have any kind of exhaust work? Trying to huff any more air (whether blower or bottle) is going to require improved breathing for you to really be able to take advantage of it. Then there is factoring in your fuel system, ignition, is your transmission going to hold that or are you going to spew tranny parts everywhere, is your axle going to take the beating. There is so much more to it than just "strapping it on and tuning".

Please, please, PLEASE, do yourself a huge favor and do more research and ask more questions. I am doing something similar, but in the end I came to the conclusion that if I wanted the engine to last, I would have to rebuild it to a lower compression.

[Emerald_Z]

Ive done a fair amount of research, and here are a few of my options.

1) Do a LS1 Swap (Expensive but straight forward)
2) Switch to a old style carb sbc (and eventually convert it to megasquirt)(cheap reliable and will put down the #'s I want, but will throw mpg out the window)
3) 5.3 Swap (cheaper than a LS swap but not as straight forward)
4) Lightly mod the lt1 (not going to make the power I want)

Not sure what Im going to do as of right now. Each has its pros and cons.

[popo8]

Why is every option....expensive...but then when u get to the lt1...

Its "lightly modify" ," wont put down the numbers i want."

Why not... Modify it right to MAKE the numbers u want..

Look around u here...we have people from 250-1,000+ rwhp lt1s here....


Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com

[zooguy]

i dont really understand the goal of a certain number on the dyno ... if you want to go fast you need to have a ET as your goal. if you set up the car for what you want you will be more happy. if i have a 600hp car on stock tires and suspension it might run low 12's to 11's .... if you set up a car right and want to go fast you can make a 400 hp smoke the 600hp car in any drag race.

if your just wanting a dyno queen that wont be ran then do the 5.3 /LS swap. do boost and spray

[CamaroZGuy]

i dont really understand the goal of a certain number on the dyno ... if you want to go fast you need to have a ET as your goal. if you set up the car for what you want you will be more happy. if i have a 600hp car on stock tires and suspension it might run low 12's to 11's .... if you set up a car right and want to go fast you can make a 400 hp smoke the 600hp car in any drag race.

if your just wanting a dyno queen that wont be ran then do the 5.3 /LS swap. do boost and spray

Not every one builds for drag racing...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[95ImpySS]

Ive done a fair amount of research, and here are a few of my options.

1) Do a LS1 Swap (Expensive but straight forward)
2) Switch to a old style carb sbc (and eventually convert it to megasquirt)(cheap reliable and will put down the #'s I want, but will throw mpg out the window)
3) 5.3 Swap (cheaper than a LS swap but not as straight forward)
4) Lightly mod the lt1 (not going to make the power I want)

Not sure what Im going to do as of right now. Each has its pros and cons.

1) Expensive, time consuming, and will require more money for mods.
2) Even mods with EFI your MPG goes out the window. Only way to keep MPG is to get a daily driver IMO
3) No clue on 5.3 swap. I assume its similar to LS swap.
4) Depends on you Idea of lightly modded. I say Lightly modded is H/C/N2O. Which would get you the number you want.

[Emerald_Z]

i dont really understand the goal of a certain number on the dyno ... if you want to go fast you need to have a ET as your goal. if you set up the car for what you want you will be more happy. if i have a 600hp car on stock tires and suspension it might run low 12's to 11's .... if you set up a car right and want to go fast you can make a 400 hp smoke the 600hp car in any drag race.

if your just wanting a dyno queen that wont be ran then do the 5.3 /LS swap. do boost and spray

VVVV What he said


Not every one builds for drag racing...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Car will mostly see interstate pulls, car is my dd, just needs to be quicker. Im tired of all the cocky local bmw owners, and local ls owners thinking the car should be in a junk yard somewhere.


1) Expensive, time consuming, and will require more money for mods.
2) Even mods with EFI your MPG goes out the window. Only way to keep MPG is to get a daily driver IMO
3) No clue on 5.3 swap. I assume its similar to LS swap.
4) Depends on you Idea of lightly modded. I say Lightly modded is H/C/N2O. Which would get you the number you want.

Im suprised you havent heard more about 5.3 swaps lol.

But yea

I guess Im just unsure how happy I will be modding a motor with 112k on it, if in 6 months after the mods it goes boom.

[95ImpySS]

I guess Im just unsure how happy I will be modding a motor with 112k on it, if in 6 months after the mods it goes boom.

Precisely. Better done right the first time, then right the 2nd or 3rd. Keep an eye on the for sale section. Some good parts pop up there every now and then.

[popo8]

Not every one builds for drag racing...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Ouoted for TRUTH


Larry (Popo8) Co-owner
LTXtech.com