Pondering a new car

[94capl99]

So, while I love my car, I just can't afford the gas anymore.. Because of $60 of gas every week, I'm loosing a ton of money, as I need to get Premium and only get 20mpg..

So I was looking at some CHEAP new cars.. I have been eye balling the 15k new Dodge Dart from 2013. I can't afford it right now, but that's what you do with new cars, you get a loan and pay it off! (and don't get stupid and buy more crap you can't pay off).

I know it's not a fast car, I know it's not a powerful car, and especially, I know it's not the best in MPG, but it IS cheap and new. I just can't do the constant maintenance my car requires.

If not a good enough car for the money, any other recommendations? I also will plan to sell my Caprice. If anyone wants to buy it, please let me know.. My Dad may not be able to take it because his back has gotten so bad, he can't even drive his own car anymore.

[firebird_1995]

I've got a 2012 Chevy Cruze eco. With the 6 speed manual trans i can get 50 MPG on the highway. I average 40-44 because of stop and go traffic. It was 19k new

[94capl99]

19k may even be too much for me after I pay all my bills every month I only can make about $100

[firebird_1995]

Yea i ended up financing 15k over 6 years and it ended up being around 250 a month. The savings in gas is what balanced it out for me. I drive about 500 miles a week

[popo8]

Wait.... $60 a wk is alot?

Either way ur last comment says u can only make 100 dollar.... does that mean ur new car monthly payment cap is $100?

[wysemunky]

Get an older civic cx. Dirt cheap, easy to work on, good mpg, but slow as dirt.

[harner]

Wait.... $60 a wk is alot?

Either way ur last comment says u can only make 100 dollar.... does that mean ur new car monthly payment cap is $100?

This. Justifying a new car for that little savings long term, for a brand new car that depreciates immediately may not be the best thing to do. You could get a second car under $3k that gets 30+ on 87 and save money. Hell, my car insurance went DOWN when I added my $1900 Grand Prix GT to it.

I currently DD my TBSS, getting anywhere from 10.5-13mpg per tank, depending how heavy I am on the skinny pedal. I average about 1.5 tanks a week, which is roughly $100. When I was DD'ing my Grand Prix, it was more like $50/week. Not enough to justify a new car, but enough to have some play money at the end of the month. Now I just need to fix the brake issue with the car and I can have more play money lol.

[AdamG]

If you own the car it doesn't make sense. Because you are going from a car you own with no payment to a car you will be making payments on and you will still need to buy gas. Plus you will have carry full coverage on insurance so higher insurance costs there. So you will spend 300-500 a month to save probably 100 when you look at the fuel difference.

If you want a new car that cool but you wont be saving money really.

[popo8]

I dont remember the exact numbers, but the equation went something like this. if ur current car gets 10-15mpg and u drive 12k a year..... if u buy a car that gets double the mpg.... u will have to drive it for 10 years to begin saving money to justify that purchase.... witg that being said.... in 2024.... u will FINALLY start feeling savings.....


Now...the rule of thumb for financing assuming u have good credit.....on a 5 yr loan....for every 10g u borrow, it will cost u 200 bucks a month...... u want a 15,000 dollar car???? 250-300 a month depending on credit.....

For ur 100 bucks a month.... u can plan on buying a $5,000 car for 5 yrs....

[sick70malibu]

If I were in your position I would try and hold out a bit longer and keep saving some more. Like its been said before your car now is paid for and the only cost is maintenance. Where as the new car will be full coverage insurance, plus fuel, plus payment.

If you really do need something asap try to find a little beater that is dirt cheap and gets good mileage. Personally I went from my Chevelle to driving an '88 Mazda 323 GTX. I bought it for $600 with a bad engine I dropped about $400 into a rebuild(bearings, rings, gaskets etc) and ended up having a very reliable, and mostly economical car. The Chevelle got ~10mpg, the Mazda got ~21-22 depending if I kept out of the boost ;) After awhile I had enough saved up to but my truck. Although im down to 14-15mpg now with the truck im not complaining cause it does have 37x12.50x20's on it and since its a diesel it is super reliable and will last forever.

Just my .02¢

Sent from my now unrooted but updated DROID 2(stupid updates)

[94Blackbird]

I dont remember the exact numbers, but the equation went something like this. if ur current car gets 10-15mpg and u drive 12k a year..... if u buy a car that gets double the mpg.... u will have to drive it for 10 years to begin saving money to justify that purchase.... witg that being said.... in 2024.... u will FINALLY start feeling savings.....


Now...the rule of thumb for financing assuming u have good credit.....on a 5 yr loan....for every 10g u borrow, it will cost u 200 bucks a month...... u want a 15,000 dollar car???? 250-300 a month depending on credit.....

For ur 100 bucks a month.... u can plan on buying a $5,000 car for 5 yrs....


This all sounds about right. Though you'll be hard pressed to find a place that'll loan you out 5 grand over a 5 year period. I just bought my wife a new car, and we had to stay over 10k on price to get the 5 year loan period and keep our payments under 200 a month. (we also got a killer 1.7 percent annual rate but that's besides the point).

A 15k new car will probably run closer to 300 a month in payments than 250. And alot also depends not just on your credit, but also your debt to income ratio. Even if you have good credit, if you're at or over 50 percent debt to income, either they won't lend you the money or the interest rates will be horrendous. Honestly, unless your only making a few hundred a month, 60 a week in fuel cost isn't all that bad compared to the payment, increased insurance AND then you still have to put gas into the tank.

My main point is, don't get into a new car thinking you are going to be saving a whole bunch of money. You'll spend a lot more money getting into a second vehicle than you will if you just run your current car.

If you think you can't afford the gas in your current car, just wait until you have that payment, the extra insurance, and you still have to buy gas. Sure, you might go to 60 every two weeks, but then you still have your planned 100/mo payment, plus you can expect insurance to go up by a bit (probably expect at least double), so now you went from a car costing you 290 a month to run (lets say for arguments sake your insurance is 50/mo., just to keep things even) to a car that will cost you say 320 a month. If you're having trouble coming up with the 290 a month for your current car, you're going to have serious issues coming up with the money for what you have said you have budgeted. And it'll only be worse the newer a vehicle you try to buy. Whenever I was car shopping, I aways figure on having about 200 a month in payments, most places won't let you finance smaller amounts out long enough to get down around 100 dollars a month, usually you can expect at least 150 a month or more.

Just out of curiosity, why are you running premium? B body LTx motors were designed to run on good ole 87, hence the lower compression (10:1 vs 10.4-10.8:1 depending on which camaro/vette LT1/4 you got).

[sick70malibu]

This all sounds about right. Though you'll be hard pressed to find a place that'll loan you out 5 grand over a 5 year period. I just bought my wife a new car, and we had to stay over 10k on price to get the 5 year loan period and keep our payments under 200 a month. (we also got a killer 1.7 percent annual rate but that's besides the point).

A 15k new car will probably run closer to 300 a month in payments than 250. And alot also depends not just on your credit, but also your debt to income ratio. Even if you have good credit, if you're at or over 50 percent debt to income, either they won't lend you the money or the interest rates will be horrendous. Honestly, unless your only making a few hundred a month, 60 a week in fuel cost isn't all that bad compared to the payment, increased insurance AND then you still have to put gas into the tank.

My main point is, don't get into a new car thinking you are going to be saving a whole bunch of money. You'll spend a lot more money getting into a second vehicle than you will if you just run your current car.

If you think you can't afford the gas in your current car, just wait until you have that payment, the extra insurance, and you still have to buy gas. Sure, you might go to 60 every two weeks, but then you still have your planned 100/mo payment, plus you can expect insurance to go up by a bit (probably expect at least double), so now you went from a car costing you 290 a month to run (lets say for arguments sake your insurance is 50/mo., just to keep things even) to a car that will cost you say 320 a month. If you're having trouble coming up with the 290 a month for your current car, you're going to have serious issues coming up with the money for what you have said you have budgeted. And it'll only be worse the newer a vehicle you try to buy. Whenever I was car shopping, I aways figure on having about 200 a month in payments, most places won't let you finance smaller amounts out long enough to get down around 100 dollars a month, usually you can expect at least 150 a month or more.

Just out of curiosity, why are you running premium? B body LTx motors were designed to run on good ole 87, hence the lower compression (10:1 vs 10.4-10.8:1 depending on which camaro/vette LT1/4 you got).

Couldn't have said it better

Sent from my now unrooted but updated DROID 2(stupid updates)

[Hot94Z28]

get some beater Honda till you can afford a nicer DD..... Just my opinion

[BLK95TA]

having a paid off car > having a new car. i've never owned a car newer than 7 years old with less than 70k miles on it. right now my DD is an 04 mustang 'vert with 88k. being debt free FTW.

[Hot94Z28]

I agree its nice not having a car payment but 4-Wheeler payment sucks lol.

[94capl99]

Just out of curiosity, why are you running premium? B body LTx motors were designed to run on good ole 87, hence the lower compression (10:1 vs 10.4-10.8:1 depending on which camaro/vette LT1/4 you got).
When I got my car tuned by Solomon, he told me I needed to be using 93 octane.. Is this not true? The timing was advanced quite a bit, just until it started knocking then backed off slightly.

[sick70malibu]

When I got my car tuned by Solomon, he told me I needed to be using 93 octane.. Is this not true? The timing was advanced quite a bit, just until it started knocking then backed off slightly.

I thought advanced timing caused pinging...I could be wrong but I cant think of a time when it would cause a knock.

[94capl99]

On the few small blocks i have messed with, advanced timing caused the knock counter on the computers to count up.

[popo8]

Dont forget that its also the L99, in case that makes a compression difference also.....

[94capl99]

Yes, it's compression is less.

I'll try regular on my next tank, but I'l need to have a spare PCM pre-programmed to stock timing, just in case.

[94capl99]

Got regular gas.

Will see how it goes, but I got a PCM with a stock tune ready just in case.

[95ImpySS]

Can you read and write tunes? I can modify the timing tables for you.

[94capl99]

Yes I can read and write tunes.. I have a Mac laptop, but I use Oracle VirtualBox to run XP to run CATS WinFlash.

I'll have the current tune for you in a sec.. It does have Closed Loop disabled however, due to bad wiring issues I NEVER could figure out with this car (left O2 sensor is not reading right, and neither is the knock sensors). This is partially why I've been running Premium, to reduce the risk of a ping that the PCM can't hear. I've done everything I can think of for the wiring issues, new PCM, new engine harness, new grounds, new O2 sensor, and it STILL can't read it right..

It also has a few other OBD codes disabled also for other various reasons, EGR, knock sensor diagnostics (for the same reason of the issue mentioned above, otherwise the car goes in limp home mode and runs like absolute trash).

[94capl99]

Here's my current tune.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/y65bw85s8ou26d1/novats.bin

As the file name shows, the VATS is shut off also.. The connection in the ignition lock failed and I had to fix it in software.

[94capl99]

So far with this tank of gas.

Idle is a little rougher now.. Driving though seems normal.

[popo8]

Remind us what u have dun to the motor?

(Yes... I purchased my 1st app TapaTalk)

[94capl99]

I have a dual air intake, as seen on my avatar, cat delete, air pump delete, that's about it.. Otherwise it's still mostly stock.

The PCM has had a lot done though.. I can compile a chart that shows what's different from a stock PCM and my modified PCM's ROM. Timing, and injector rates are much different now.


An update: Idle has cleared up, but now I have a loss of performance when on the highway and need to get in the passing lane.. Not much but I can feel it.. Not sure on the milage though yet.

The engine sounds different though when accelerating, and I don't like the sound of it, has a more harmonic sound, and I think it may be pinging.

[popo8]

i think ur really over thinking this. Its a low compression l99.... No mods internally.... The diffrrence between premium and cheap is what
50c max??? on 10 gallons thats 5 bucks difference.... idk how big a caprice tank is but if 5-10 difference a fill up is whatd gonna make the difference, then buying a new csr with monthly payments is not for u.....


Sorry so blunt.... but I had to write it.... this whole thing started cause u wanted to get ur self a newer car snd make payments like everyone else does.... well even if u get rid of the caprice and make 200 dollar a month payments on a newer car (assuming its a 10k car and u can finance it for 5-6 years) THERE is $50 a week and i still need to fuel THAT car up.....

Catch my drift?

(Yes... I purchased my 1st app TapaTalk)

[94capl99]

But you're meaning to tell me that an engine that has it's timing advanced quite a bit from stock, is still going to be able to perform ok on regular? I'm just trying to make sure but no one answered that question for me, because based on my research using regular, on a more advanced timing like I have, is going to be a little bit of an issue.

[popo8]

But you're meaning to tell me that an engine that has it's timing advanced quite a bit from stock, is still going to be able to perform ok on regular? I'm just trying to make sure but no one answered that question for me, because based on my research using regular, on a more advanced timing like I have, is going to be a little bit of an issue.


Im saying use whatever gas you want... 50c a gallon is not whats gonna make or break you, especially when the option you wanted was to buy a car and make car payments.....

[94capl99]

But the question still has gone unanswered. I'm not going to buy another car now, but I want to make sure I'm getting exactly what my engine needs.

Regular seems to make it knock a few times when I step on the gas.. Premium doesn't do that. This is why I'm looking at the timing now. Because my timing is probably advanced too much for regular, but I need help adjusting that.

Here's my main spark advance tables.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Evilweredragon/ScreenShot2012-07-29at14933PM.png

Gas milage wise, I actually got a little less on regular.. With premium I get 21mpg average.. On the regular I got 19mpg.

[popo8]

So go back to premium.... THATS tge answer. Clearly ur unhappy w regular....soooooo..... use premium.