Crossroad...I need your opinions.

[Phstratton]

I know you guys are going to be biased because this is an LTX sight but try to but your bias aside, and think about what you would do, and what you think is the best route.

So, here's the deal, as most of you know I've been struggling with getting this car lined out for a while, some of it is due to my crappy troubleshooting skills. After everything has been replaced and fixed, I've come down to the final problem, and that's that my car is so rich it's kicking the check engine light. I had to go with a mail order tune because there aren't any tuners within driving distance and I don't have a way to haul the car. I'm not kicking PCMForless because they did the best they could considering they're 500 miles away. So here are my options:

1. Find some way to haul my car to whoever the nearest tuner is so far I think my best bet is going to be cincy speed which is still far away. That's going to cost 500 for a dyno tune at the least + whatever it costs me to get the car up there and back.

2. Save up and buy EFI 24x, since it can be tuned by HP Tuners and I have several friends that can tune with it.

3. Buy the tuning software and try to figure it out for myself (I have absolutely not tuning experience what-so-ever).

4. Part out my motor, trans, harness, etc. and go LS. Once again, I could be tuned by several of my friends around here for about 125 dollars. Also, with the money from the part out I could more than likely afford the swap since I'd probably just get a 5.3.

Once again, please try to put your bias aside and tell me what you think the best route will be. I could've posted this on LS1Tech for a more "Diverse" answer, but I knew I'd get a lot of LS-fan boys and honestly I'm not in the mood for it. Also, if I went LS it wouldn't change anything as far as me hanging out on here. I love you guys. Thanks in advance guys.

[popo8]

You gotta do what you want to do as far as LT or LS... Me .... Im LT all the way...

Talk to Moe, and see what it would take to do your computer.


Contact PCM4less and tell Bryan what you believe the issue is and see if they can lean it out (you better be sure tho)

Tell us what codes its throwing and why you believe its rich???? What did you change on the car to fatten it up...

[Phstratton]

I had Advance read the codes and it was throwing a code that said the system was too rich. I didn't actually check the code #.

[Phstratton]

And I'm not wasting money on another mail tune from anyone.

[Chris]

I understand where you are coming from with being frustrated. Swapping a motor is not going to be the answer here. Very drastic measures. Do you have a thread with the issues you are having cam specs and what not.

I would suggest you get some tuning software and send back and forth with some people on here to get it dialed in.

[Phstratton]

I understand where you are coming from with being frustrated. Swapping a motor is not going to be the answer here. Very drastic measures. Do you have a thread with the issues you are having cam specs and what not.

I would suggest you get some tuning software and send back and forth with some people on here to get it dialed in.

It's just a LT4 Hot cam w/ a set of LE1 heads. No, I don't have a thread for it. Most of the diagnosing took place between me and my friends, and my LTX buddies that are on facebook.

[popo8]

I had Advance read the codes and it was throwing a code that said the system was too rich. I didn't actually check the code #.


well that (the numbers) would help us.....

[popo8]

And I'm not wasting money on another mail tune from anyone.


Ok man. good luck building or tunning a car, or swapping a motor without spending money......

Its a car... ALL money invested is a waste. WORST INVESTMENTS EVER, but we do it cause we love it.

[Phstratton]

Ok man. good luck building or tunning a car, or swapping a motor without spending money......

Its a car... ALL money invested is a waste. WORST INVESTMENTS EVER, but we do it cause we love it.

Honestly at this point I don't see a mail order tune as a good investment. I could see buying the software and learning to tune a good investment or even taking it somewhere but I'm not throwing money at a tuner halfway across the country again.

[Chris]

Do your eyes burn from the exhaust? Is there black soot coming from the pipes?

[Phstratton]

Do your eyes burn from the exhaust? Is there black soot coming from the pipes?

My eyes burn from just sitting in the damn car lol, and everyone can smell it on me when I walk inside after working on it. And yes it's blowing soot, plus it's loading up at stop lights and trying to die.

[Chris]

When was the last time you checked your valvetrain? Broken rockers , springs etc

[Phstratton]

Recently, since the reason for the tune was that I put new heads on, and I haven't gotten to drive it maybe 30 miles since.

[Phstratton]

Also, the drivetrain is solid, and all of the electrical, and control modules have been replaced and tested to make sure they're functioning properly. You can even look at the plugs to see that it's running rich.

[Chris]

Convert to a 94/95 computer. Hit up people on here to trade tunes back and forth with and enjoy the car for the summer. /Thread

[Phstratton]

I'm gonna pass on going OBD I, that's a step backwards.

[Chris]

Not with our cars it isn't. Now if you are taking something like a 10' corvette and say something like that it is. But saying that going obdI from obdII on these cars is very misguided.

[popo8]

Not with our cars it isn't. Now if you are taking something like a 10' corvette and say something like that it is. But saying that going obdI from obdII on these cars is very misguided.


Well said, but dont forget you need to swap the KNOCK SENSOR in the block as well......

[joelster]

Here's a few pointers that shouldn't cost too much.

To me it sounds like your o2's are shot.....................You could replace them for about $125-$150. You can tell if you take it to a dealer and have them plug in a tech2 scanner or something similar.

If it's not the o2's then pick up a good wideband o2gauge. Basically it is an oxygen sensor that plugs in where your oxygen sensor is but gives you a readout of your a/f ratio at all times. They are an excellent tool to have at your disposal. Take your car for a spin and monitor your a/f ratio when cruising in gear, and then at WOT up through the gears. If it is as rich as you say, the cruising will be 12.5/13-1 but then WOT will dip way down around 10/10.5-1 (possibly lower) and black smoke will pour out the exhaust. Ideally you want cruising a/f to be up around 15-1, and then WOT to be 12.8/13-1, somewhere in there, for an n/a car.

Not to sound mean or anything, but I really doubt it's the tune. I have never in my life heard of a mail-order tune being THAT far off, especially on a car like yours with common mods. I had 2 tunes from pcmforless, 1 from when I had stock heads and the 503 cam, and my current one with tfs heads and the xfi468 cam. My friend has tweaked both of the tunes to change the idle speed slightly, and bring the timing in a little quicker, but basically we didn't alter much at all. Bryan has tuned thousands of cars and has files of tunes for cars with exact mods as yours.

[JHaleyH374]

I'd like to add some stuff that Paul forgot to mention (I'm his friend and have helped him work on the car). When we first got the car back together with the heads/intake swap the car ran perfect...wasn't rich at all. Well, after the ignition module/opti went out and all of that was replaced, I turned the engine over with the fuel pump fuse unhooked, spark plugs out, and all electrical connections unhooked to get the excess fuel out of the engine. He also changed from a stock fuel pump to some sort of aftermarket pump in this process. Since the car has been running after all of these changes it's acted goofy idling as he said from being too rich. I suggested he take the car down the interstate about 20 miles and let all of the sensors re-learn their programs and let everything get back in sync....he said he ran the car pretty hard and long the other day so I'd say that's probably not the issue. What's puzzling is as I said at first, the car was NOT rich until the opti and module (on the cylinder head) was changed...and yes the opti was installed in the right position. Could the aftermarket pump be giving the engine fuel too fast at idle and the computer isn't programmed for that flow rate?

[speedracer2536]

CALL MOE BAILEY.... He can help you.. His mail order tunes are more than spot on.. I believe he will be at the shootout as well.. Pm me if you want his #

[95ImpySS]

IMO, swapping motors is not going to be the most cost effective. Granted LT1 tuners are scarce and far between, Going LS is going to be pricey and alot of work. I am not a fan of mail order tunes. If you like I will tweek things in your tune for you. All you need as a ALDL cable to read and write the tunes. First thing i would do is disconnect your O2's. Can you read real time data off your PCM?

[speedracer2536]

HMM is the vaccum hooked up to the fpr? Sounds to me like you may have some type of vaccum leak of some sort.. Check the engine sensor fuse as well.. Make sure that the maf and the 02's are reading.. If they are try unhooking them both to force the car into SD.. See if that helps at all. But like i said. give Moe a call if you have his # he may be able to help you..

On a side note.. OBD1 is not a step backwards for the lt1.. Its supported with free tunning software... :devil: Im sure if you know someone that can run HP tuners they could easily handle tuner pro or tuner cats

[joelster]

The new fuel pump still has to operate within the range that the fuel pressure regulator sets. So a new pump can't provide too much fuel to an engine.

[Chris]

So the car ran fine before people fucked it with it? Their ya go. Must have missed something putting it back together.

[CALL911]

I personally think bringing your car to the tuner will give you the most accurate tune. This being said, Bryan is a very knowledgable LTX tuner (if not the best). I also agree that something is up with the car and not the tune. But if you are certain, that the car is 100% A-okay, then I would bite the bullet, and figure a way to get your car to the dyno where you can get it tuned properly.

[Ricehammer]

Hmmmm, this sounds familiar. I had the same experience with a PCMforless tune in a cammed aftermarket headed 96Z. That thing made my eyes burn it was running so rich. After checking for any possible vac leaks, O2's....the rest, I bought an OBDI PCM and sent it off with my engine specs to Mad Tuner http://madtuner.com/ and couldn't be happier with the work he did.

Just a thought.

[DMBlack]

Hmmmm, this sounds familiar. I had the same experience with a PCMforless tune in a cammed aftermarket headed 96Z. That thing made my eyes burn it was running so rich. After checking for any possible vac leaks, O2's....the rest, I bought an OBDI PCM and sent it off with my engine specs to Mad Tuner http://madtuner.com/ and couldn't be happier with the work he did.

Just a thought.


I have seen the same thing with a local car here, and the same tuner was little help with getting the situation any better. My PCM4Less bolt on tune has been great, but for anything more than that I would look for a tuner that is willing to help a little more when things are not right.