Cross
10-19-2008, 07:38 PM
Ok so I swapped my New (As in new rebuilt and modified LT4 with 3000 miles max on it) motor from My 96 Camaro to My 94 Formula.
I swapped the Coil and ICM.
I swapped the Knock Sensor.
I did not touch the wiring the 94 was running a stock LT1 before we did it and the Camaro was running (Although REALLY Rich) in the 96.
The ECU's were not swapped.
I have checked there are no codes according to my AutoXray.
The Security Light does not stay on.
There are no blown fuses.
I did get a weird sound like a tooth or two came off the flywheel o.O started sounded dead but I had it tested, put it back in same thing, moved the rear wheels and suddenly everything was fine....
I did the tests showed for checking voltage etc and came to believe it was the Opti so I replaced everything, Its all new. Put it back together and nothing.... it just cranks and cranks but does not start.
I put my Spark Tester on Plug #1... nothing. Never lights up at all.
I do have fuel as I can smell it but I have not done a fuel spec test yet. (Besides checking for voltage pulses)
:2guns: :double fuck: :dots: :censored: :hang: :taz: :fuck-8:
WTF!!!! Both cars were fine before we did the swap now it hates me.
The only thing that's not even worth mentioning in my opinion is the ground strap that goes from the ICM to where ever you choose to mount it broke and I did not replace it. That's it. (This was not present on the Camaro its an extra strap from the bolt closest to the Fender well on the Mount Post for the ICM and Coil to the Head and it goes to the body)
I removed all the EGR and AIR stuff, all brackets, all lines all that is left is the connectors and I am just completely LOST.
I also removed anything related to the AirBag System I could find not sure that would cause this but I am mentioning it either way.
Can ANYONE PPPLLLEEEAASSEE Tell me WTF I am over looking?
----UPDATE----
OK I did everything here:
http://www.mainstreamtopics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78
I failed the following (I checked beyond the first fail because its a new Opti)
The first thing we will do is verify the optical sensor is working correctly. And here is how..
Unhook 1 fuel injector connector. With your test light check for pulsing ground on the NON PINK wire while cranking the engine (different years use different color wires but all year have pink wires for the positive voltage side of the connectors) The other choice you have is to use the noid light (noid light AZ OEM part number 25143), plug the noid light into the connector and crank the car. The light should flash..
Do you have a flashing ground while cranking?
Yes, the optical sensor is sending the signal and should be ok, continue to test the ignition system.
No, the optical sensor is not working see testing opti section. My Result, However I tested at the PCM side of the wire connector at the Passenger side VC... its hard to get down to test where it requests.
That lead too;
If you failed the injector pulse test we must make sure that all the power is getting to the opti.
With the test light and the car on KOEO, unplug the opti connector at the optispark and test for hot at the red wire at the opti. do you have hot?
If yes. Next step My Result again I tested at the connector on the VC.
if no, the pos feed comes from the computer. Check that the PCM is sending the signal, if not then you might have a faulty PCM
Next, using a multi meter on volts scale, test the red/black and purple/white wires for 5 volts. Do you have 5 Volts?
Yes, next step 6 Volts on Each
No, The 5 volt reference is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem
Next, test the pink/black wire for ground. Do you have ground?
Yes, then the optical sensor is not working and is probably bad. based on the other tests run this is causing your no spark condition. It’s time to replace your opti. You can also check for corrosion or damage to the opti connector and replace as needed. This was my Result but as I said I just today put in the new Opti. While getting a new Opti that's bad is possible I am not buying it just yet.
No, the ground is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem.
--------------End of first batch of tests--------------
So because I felt it could not be the Opti I did the rest of the tests and ran into problems here:
Next we will see if the coil and ICM are causing the no spark.
First on the ICM connector with KOEO check for hot (93-95) on the Pink/Black and white/black wires or (96-97) on the Pink and Dark green wires. Do you have hot?
Yes, next step Yes I did.
No, (93-95) Check for hot at the pink wire a the ign coil. If you have power at the coil, but not at the ICM, The coil is shorted and preventing power from reaching the ICM. Replace the coil and retest. If you do not have hot at the coils pink wire, check the 10 amp Ign fuse. Repair as needed and retest.
(96-97) If you are missing hot on both wires at the module, check the 10amp ign fuse, Repair and retest. If you are missing hot only on the dark green wire, but not he pink wire, the coil has shorted and is preventing the voltage from reaching the module and must be replaced.
Next check for ground on the black wire. do you have ground?
Yes, next step Yes I did.
no, repair ground
next test for a pulsing ground at the dark green wire(96-97) or the White/black wire (93-95) at the coil coming from the ICM. Do you have a pulsing ground?
Yes, next step
No Replace the ICM *note, I have seen a bad coil burn up an ICM. It might be a good time to replace or upgrade your coil* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.
next with your test light check for hot on the Pink wire at the coil. do you have hot?
Yes, Replace your coil *note, High resistance from bad plug wires can burn out coils. You can Ohm test plug wires or replace them if wanted* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.
No, Check and repair ign fuse and retest
---------End of Tests here---------
So while doing this I obviously added that Ground Strap which did nothing... and I found these wires that I am not sure what they are too but they were just wrapped with electrical tape. It was like this when the prior owner got the car and I drove in the car I knew it ran... just no idea if these were to the Air System or what.
1 Black wire and 2 Tan and White wires that seem to be just one cut wire...
(I tested them and the Black grounds but it kicks on a relay in the fuse box I an hear it and the ground is faint the test light goes off and on. The two tan and whites ground out well.)
Ok with a voltage meter the following has been found:
Car off the Tan and White are Ground no volts and the Black has no volts.
Key on Engine off Tan and white are Ground and the Black has 12V.
Cranking the Tan and White have 6.5 Volts and Black has 12V.
They seem to be linked to the ABS as they click that Relay (Tan and White)
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h98/CrossGT6/SNC11275.jpg
Its out of the same spot as the MAF, Coil and ICM Connectors and its 3 wires supplying 2V.
----More updates----
So I got my new MadZ28 Ecu and hopped maybe that would change it... nothing. (I have not redone the electrical but I am sure nothing has changed. I will look shortly.
This has to be something small I over looked when reinstalling the motor. What other connections, Grounds etc could I have over looked that would cause this? I really need the help guys this needs to be back up and running tomorrow as I do not have a ride (Or at this point a wife) anymore.
---Yet more updates and Pics added---
Ok I tried a new ICM no change, tested the coil its coming up good. I was going to buy an MSD coil tonight but it looked used and broken... Autozone.
---More to add---
The White wire coming off the PCM that's supposed to tell the ICM to spark is supposedly supposed to be at 12v... mine is at 9-9.5v.
Any idea's?
I swapped the Coil and ICM.
I swapped the Knock Sensor.
I did not touch the wiring the 94 was running a stock LT1 before we did it and the Camaro was running (Although REALLY Rich) in the 96.
The ECU's were not swapped.
I have checked there are no codes according to my AutoXray.
The Security Light does not stay on.
There are no blown fuses.
I did get a weird sound like a tooth or two came off the flywheel o.O started sounded dead but I had it tested, put it back in same thing, moved the rear wheels and suddenly everything was fine....
I did the tests showed for checking voltage etc and came to believe it was the Opti so I replaced everything, Its all new. Put it back together and nothing.... it just cranks and cranks but does not start.
I put my Spark Tester on Plug #1... nothing. Never lights up at all.
I do have fuel as I can smell it but I have not done a fuel spec test yet. (Besides checking for voltage pulses)
:2guns: :double fuck: :dots: :censored: :hang: :taz: :fuck-8:
WTF!!!! Both cars were fine before we did the swap now it hates me.
The only thing that's not even worth mentioning in my opinion is the ground strap that goes from the ICM to where ever you choose to mount it broke and I did not replace it. That's it. (This was not present on the Camaro its an extra strap from the bolt closest to the Fender well on the Mount Post for the ICM and Coil to the Head and it goes to the body)
I removed all the EGR and AIR stuff, all brackets, all lines all that is left is the connectors and I am just completely LOST.
I also removed anything related to the AirBag System I could find not sure that would cause this but I am mentioning it either way.
Can ANYONE PPPLLLEEEAASSEE Tell me WTF I am over looking?
----UPDATE----
OK I did everything here:
http://www.mainstreamtopics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78
I failed the following (I checked beyond the first fail because its a new Opti)
The first thing we will do is verify the optical sensor is working correctly. And here is how..
Unhook 1 fuel injector connector. With your test light check for pulsing ground on the NON PINK wire while cranking the engine (different years use different color wires but all year have pink wires for the positive voltage side of the connectors) The other choice you have is to use the noid light (noid light AZ OEM part number 25143), plug the noid light into the connector and crank the car. The light should flash..
Do you have a flashing ground while cranking?
Yes, the optical sensor is sending the signal and should be ok, continue to test the ignition system.
No, the optical sensor is not working see testing opti section. My Result, However I tested at the PCM side of the wire connector at the Passenger side VC... its hard to get down to test where it requests.
That lead too;
If you failed the injector pulse test we must make sure that all the power is getting to the opti.
With the test light and the car on KOEO, unplug the opti connector at the optispark and test for hot at the red wire at the opti. do you have hot?
If yes. Next step My Result again I tested at the connector on the VC.
if no, the pos feed comes from the computer. Check that the PCM is sending the signal, if not then you might have a faulty PCM
Next, using a multi meter on volts scale, test the red/black and purple/white wires for 5 volts. Do you have 5 Volts?
Yes, next step 6 Volts on Each
No, The 5 volt reference is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem
Next, test the pink/black wire for ground. Do you have ground?
Yes, then the optical sensor is not working and is probably bad. based on the other tests run this is causing your no spark condition. It’s time to replace your opti. You can also check for corrosion or damage to the opti connector and replace as needed. This was my Result but as I said I just today put in the new Opti. While getting a new Opti that's bad is possible I am not buying it just yet.
No, the ground is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem.
--------------End of first batch of tests--------------
So because I felt it could not be the Opti I did the rest of the tests and ran into problems here:
Next we will see if the coil and ICM are causing the no spark.
First on the ICM connector with KOEO check for hot (93-95) on the Pink/Black and white/black wires or (96-97) on the Pink and Dark green wires. Do you have hot?
Yes, next step Yes I did.
No, (93-95) Check for hot at the pink wire a the ign coil. If you have power at the coil, but not at the ICM, The coil is shorted and preventing power from reaching the ICM. Replace the coil and retest. If you do not have hot at the coils pink wire, check the 10 amp Ign fuse. Repair as needed and retest.
(96-97) If you are missing hot on both wires at the module, check the 10amp ign fuse, Repair and retest. If you are missing hot only on the dark green wire, but not he pink wire, the coil has shorted and is preventing the voltage from reaching the module and must be replaced.
Next check for ground on the black wire. do you have ground?
Yes, next step Yes I did.
no, repair ground
next test for a pulsing ground at the dark green wire(96-97) or the White/black wire (93-95) at the coil coming from the ICM. Do you have a pulsing ground?
Yes, next step
No Replace the ICM *note, I have seen a bad coil burn up an ICM. It might be a good time to replace or upgrade your coil* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.
next with your test light check for hot on the Pink wire at the coil. do you have hot?
Yes, Replace your coil *note, High resistance from bad plug wires can burn out coils. You can Ohm test plug wires or replace them if wanted* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.
No, Check and repair ign fuse and retest
---------End of Tests here---------
So while doing this I obviously added that Ground Strap which did nothing... and I found these wires that I am not sure what they are too but they were just wrapped with electrical tape. It was like this when the prior owner got the car and I drove in the car I knew it ran... just no idea if these were to the Air System or what.
1 Black wire and 2 Tan and White wires that seem to be just one cut wire...
(I tested them and the Black grounds but it kicks on a relay in the fuse box I an hear it and the ground is faint the test light goes off and on. The two tan and whites ground out well.)
Ok with a voltage meter the following has been found:
Car off the Tan and White are Ground no volts and the Black has no volts.
Key on Engine off Tan and white are Ground and the Black has 12V.
Cranking the Tan and White have 6.5 Volts and Black has 12V.
They seem to be linked to the ABS as they click that Relay (Tan and White)
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h98/CrossGT6/SNC11275.jpg
Its out of the same spot as the MAF, Coil and ICM Connectors and its 3 wires supplying 2V.
----More updates----
So I got my new MadZ28 Ecu and hopped maybe that would change it... nothing. (I have not redone the electrical but I am sure nothing has changed. I will look shortly.
This has to be something small I over looked when reinstalling the motor. What other connections, Grounds etc could I have over looked that would cause this? I really need the help guys this needs to be back up and running tomorrow as I do not have a ride (Or at this point a wife) anymore.
---Yet more updates and Pics added---
Ok I tried a new ICM no change, tested the coil its coming up good. I was going to buy an MSD coil tonight but it looked used and broken... Autozone.
---More to add---
The White wire coming off the PCM that's supposed to tell the ICM to spark is supposedly supposed to be at 12v... mine is at 9-9.5v.
Any idea's?