PDA

View Full Version : Relay latch circuit: what it is and how to build one.



razor02097
08-05-2010, 01:08 PM
In the world of electronic controllers nothing is as versatile and necessary as a latch circuit. A latch circuit is a way to turn something on and off using electronic pulses.


Simply explained let us say you have an older car with a regular radio. When you start the car, the radio comes on. When you turn the car off, the radio turns off. Let us say that you wished when you turned the car off the radio remains on until you get out of the car. (much the same as the microcontroller BCM does in newer cars) How could you go about doing this?

Option 1 is to wire a switch to manually turn the radio on and off. This means you would have to remember to flip the switch every time you left the car or risk running your battery down.

Option 2 is to build and install a latch circuit. This option is nice because it automates the task, allowing the user to "forget" about the task.


Black box theory: This explains the inputs and outputs of the circuit. The actual circuit is referred to as the "black box"

You have 4 inputs and 1 output.

Inputs


+12V constant power
Vehicle Ground
Trigger wire to turn circuit on
Trigger wire to turn circuit off

Output


+12V or Ground out


Circuit explained: The following diagram uses 2 relays. A load relay which powers your device and a controller relay which controls whether your circuit is on or off.

The load relay can be the typical automotive 30A 4 pin relay.
The controller relay needs to be a 5 pin double pole, single throw or DPST relay.

The following schematic shows how to wire them to provide a 12V output with 12V trigger wires. The load is the radio example explained above.

Technical note: There are 3 diodes necessary to prevent circuit failure on this circuit . Each relay should have a protection diode (http://%5c%22http//tinyurl.com/2d2t5sr%5C%22). The other diode should be installed inline with the "on" trigger wire. In the following schematic I show where you put the diodes and how to orient them (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Diode_3D_and_ckt.png).

4480

When you turn the car on it will power up the radio and set the latch circuit. The relay remains on even when the ignition is switched off, this is because the relay basically provides a feedback loop to itself. To turn it off we use the controller relay to break it's ground connection. When the interior lights power the controller relay the ground connection is broken turning the load relay off.



This circuit can be used for anything from radio, entertainment to home made turbo timers and light controllers. I hope a few of you will try out this circuit and find new uses for it.


Edit: The following are quick links job specific circuits.

latch circuit to operate 2 stage controller (http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?12838-Relay-latch-circuit-what-it-is-and-how-to-build-one.&p=163435&viewfull=1#post163435)

Fastbird
08-05-2010, 02:51 PM
Hmmm........would be awesome for a two step using the abs or vss as the off trigger......

Awesome post.

96SilverRam
08-05-2010, 04:09 PM
Fastbird,
You stole the idea right out of my head. Using the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) to turn off the two step is exactly what I was thinking. In my case, I would set the two step to 5200ish, launch the car on the two step, as soon as the car starts moving the VSS would detect it and kill the two step. This may be the solution to what I was looking for in my post about two steps with a 6 speed car and a smooth way to disengage the unit. I will have to investigate this a little further.

Great info, OP.

Fastbird
08-05-2010, 05:40 PM
Fastbird,
You stole the idea right out of my head. Using the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) to turn off the two step is exactly what I was thinking. In my case, I would set the two step to 5200ish, launch the car on the two step, as soon as the car starts moving the VSS would detect it and kill the two step. This may be the solution to what I was looking for in my post about two steps with a 6 speed car and a smooth way to disengage the unit. I will have to investigate this a little further.

Great info, OP.

My only concern about doing it that way (would be a seamless way to wire in my sequental limiter on my FAST XFI) is that on my car, I have a Dakota Digital SGI-5 speedo calibration box. That thing requires an ultra clean and strong signal, and I think running the VSS through a relay would probably take too much from it, hence the ABS idea. But yeah, this would be easy to set up. I was initially planning on using a hand held push switch for launching mine, but if I can just flip a switch to arm, then have motion deactivate it, then I'm all for that.

razor02097
08-05-2010, 08:05 PM
The circuit can be modified to work with either ground or positive signal. Using a transistor or op amp can boost the signal if it isn't enough to latch or unlatch the circuit.

If you are working with a manual transmission you can use the signal from the clutch safety switch. If it is an auto you could use the brake light or Trans brake signal

Fastbird
08-05-2010, 08:20 PM
So could you wire in the clutch safety switch to be the latch "Off" trigger and still use a manual switch to arm it? This way it's ONLY on when you've manually flipped the switch on and have the clutch pedal down, and once you release the pedal the circuit opens even though the manual "arming" switch is still on?

So if the pin on my computer needs to be grounded to activate the sequential rev limiter (2-step).......let's see if we can figure out how to wire this in through the clutch switch........

96SilverRam
08-05-2010, 08:28 PM
There is only one question I have on using the clutch switch. When you flip the switch to arm the two step and the you release the clutch to disarm the two step on your initial launch and the switch is still on will it stay off when you depress the clutch for the next gear change? I suspect once you ground the circuit on the first release it can't rearm without flipping the switch off and then back on to reset the system. If so, that would work just as well as the VSS and that should solve your problem as well Fastbird.

razor02097
08-05-2010, 08:55 PM
no you would use a momentary switch to arm the system.

Push in the clutch then push the button. the button will activate the latch, pop the clutch and it will unlatch


Gear changes won't matter because the system wouldn't be active until you hold in the clutch then push the switch.

96SilverRam
08-05-2010, 09:15 PM
Okay, that makes sense. This sounds like a real solution to what I was trying to accomplish with my line lock and two step problem. Can you show an example of how you would wire the two step through the latch circuit to release on the clutch sensor?

Fastbird
08-05-2010, 09:41 PM
no you would use a momentary switch to arm the system.

Push in the clutch then push the button. the button will activate the latch, pop the clutch and it will unlatch


Gear changes won't matter because the system wouldn't be active until you hold in the clutch then push the switch.

I like it. Now to actually do it.

razor02097
08-05-2010, 10:06 PM
Assuming the 2 stage needs +12V power and the clutch switch provides ground when active you can employ the following circuit...


4487

Explanation:

When the clutch is pushed in it provides ground to the control relay turning it on.
This provides power to the input on the load relay
When the "arm button" is actuated it turns the load relay on.
Since the output and power pin is connected together the load relay remains on.
Once the clutch switch no longer provides ground the controller relay turns off shutting down the load relay and 2 stage controller.

96SilverRam
08-05-2010, 10:12 PM
You have made my week. The two step and line lock issue in my 6 speed car was really frustrating me, but that diagram clearly shows a very nice method for two step to be activated and then deactivated in a very smooth manner. Thanks a lot ! :D

razor02097
08-05-2010, 10:18 PM
Your welcome

I am glad people are putting this to good use :metal:

Fastbird
08-06-2010, 07:33 AM
Razor....one catch. My two step needs a ground signal to activate. How big of a wrench does that throw in?

razor02097
08-06-2010, 07:55 AM
Razor....one catch. My two step needs a ground signal to activate. How big of a wrench does that throw in?

Smallest of small wrenches.

The circuit is versatile enough to work with any input and any output needs. Just move a few wires and presto!

razor02097
08-06-2010, 08:11 AM
If you wanted to add indicator lights to keep an eye on things....

4490

The resistor value would depend on your operating voltage and types of LEDs you use.


You can pretty much make it as elaborate as you want

faust
08-06-2010, 08:13 AM
i stayed out of this cause as many of you i was in the same boat trying to figure this out on my own. razor you made it so ez a caveman could do it, and for that i thank you. MODS PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY FOR ALL FUTURE PEEPS THAT RUN INTO THIS.

razor02097
08-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Thank you for the thread nomination


I am more then happy to help if someone has an idea of what to use this circuit for. I will start to update the original post with quick links to each use for the circuit.