I knew it!!!

[Fastbird]

Wastegate on a centrifugal blower:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0708_vortech_centrifugal_supercharger_wastega te_install/index.html

Never mind the forum it came from. Bad arse, and opens up a lot of options.

[Fixxer99TA]

Good stuff, not only a great piece to have but Im sure it sounds cool too ;)

[Ponyhntr]

Welcome to last year! :secret: :tt2:

[Fastbird]

Welcome to last year! :secret: :tt2:

I've been saying for a LONG time that this would be an easy thing to do that would allow better usage of a blower, just had never seen anyone do it. So what's up Josh.....when's Procharger going to push this in a kit??? :whistle:

[Ponyhntr]

I've been saying for a LONG time that this would be an easy thing to do that would allow better usage of a blower, just had never seen anyone do it. So what's up Josh.....when's Procharger going to push this in a kit??? :whistle:

I don't know what you're talking about...

[Fastbird]

I don't know what you're talking about...

OOh.......really? :whistle:

[Ponyhntr]

The problem that they fail to point out in the article is that you're using more power to drive the blower harder just to bleed the air off... costing power. You're also heating the air more than necessary...

[Fixxer99TA]

True... Do the negatives far outweigh the positives?

I mean is it even worth thinking about?

[Fire67]

The problem that they fail to point out in the article is that you're using more power to drive the blower harder just to bleed the air off... costing power. You're also heating the air more than necessary...


True... Do the negatives far outweigh the positives?

I mean is it even worth thinking about?

If you mean money as a negative... Why spend the money on the wastegate, and fabbing it into your system when you can just change a pulley and be more efficient. IIRC, a decent wastegate costs more than a pulley.

There's also got to be a negative with the reliability of bearings, seals, and belts. All items that get stressed to the max when you pulley up and max the blower's rpms out. I you just get 2 pulleys, you can change them out fairly easy and get the benefits of not spinning the blower as fast.

What are the positives? Being able to be lazy and not change a pulley to change the boost level?

[Fixxer99TA]

True... True...

[Z28pr0jekt]

If you mean money as a negative... Why spend the money on the wastegate, and fabbing it into your system when you can just change a pulley and be more efficient. IIRC, a decent wastegate costs more than a pulley.

There's also got to be a negative with the reliability of bearings, seals, and belts. All items that get stressed to the max when you pulley up and max the blower's rpms out. I you just get 2 pulleys, you can change them out fairly easy and get the benefits of not spinning the blower as fast.

What are the positives? Being able to be lazy and not change a pulley to change the boost level?
there are more positives than just that..

yes you dont have to change the pulley

BUT say you have a max psi of 20... but you wanna run 15.. so you pulley it to 20 and use the wastgate to bleed it down to 15... not only are you going to make that 15psi sooner than with 15psi pulleys but you will have more power all the way through the power band

[Fire67]

there are more positives than just that..

yes you dont have to change the pulley

BUT say you have a max psi of 20... but you wanna run 15.. so you pulley it to 20 and use the wastgate to bleed it down to 15... not only are you going to make that 15psi sooner than with 15psi pulleys but you will have more power all the way through the power band

But you would have even more power if you never bled anything off and introduced more heat to the air... Remember that the blower takes power to move the air, so why waste that air?

I dont know, I guess I could see what you would like to go for with that... I just figure that if 20psi is gonna max out my blower and put it on the ragged edge of it's lifespan, then I want all 20psi into my intake.

Thinking more about this, I could see using a HUGE blower that will easily move more air than your engine could handle. Then you could use say an F1R on a stock Lt1 and have 10psi from when you mash the pedal till you get to redline... The only question would be if having the same boost sooner would be worth the trade off in power to drive the blower harder.

[Z28pr0jekt]

But you would have even more power if you never bled anything off and introduced more heat to the air... Remember that the blower takes power to move the air, so why waste that air?

I dont know, I guess I could see what you would like to go for with that... I just figure that if 20psi is gonna max out my blower and put it on the ragged edge of it's lifespan, then I want all 20psi into my intake.

Thinking more about this, I could see using a HUGE blower that will easily move more air than your engine could handle. Then you could use say an F1R on a stock Lt1 and have 10psi from when you mash the pedal till you get to redline... The only question would be if having the same boost sooner would be worth the trade off in power to drive the blower harder.

understandable... that's why I say go turbo :devil::D

[Fire67]

understandable... that's why I say go turbo :devil::D

AGREED!!!! :devil:
Save the wastegates for venting exhaust on turbo systems :)

[CALL911]

As cool of an idea as this is, I got to side with Ponyhntr on this one. It's a waste of the extra boost, and extra heat ect, when all you're gonna do with the extra boost is bleed it off.

Just makes more sense to me to run max boost all the time, and have your foot be the wastegate ;)

[SS#1230]

i agree, if youve got a big blower, chances are your gonna have a motor that can handle some pretty heavy boost. why not have it pullied to get more boost sooner, AND more boost at the top end....

and as mentioned before, a bigger impeller has more rotating mass which will take more power to turn and more torque on all the driving parts....

and if im not mistaken, the "cool" sound is a blow-off valve that is vented to the atmosphere (when the throttle closes), not the wastegate operation. so if it is routed back into the intake anywhere, your probably not gonna hear anything, especially since it is bleeding off boost while your romping on it. im thinking that most fast FI cars or gonna be pretty loud.

i think blowoff valves sound gay anyway....

[BluBeaSSt]

Welcome to last year! :secret: :tt2:

My cousins had one on his D1SC Fox....forever :confused:

[Ponyhntr]

My cousins had one on his D1SC Fox....forever :confused:

Probably not a wastegate... it's a surge valve.

[BluBeaSSt]

Probably not a wastegate... it's a surge valve.


Oh...well Yeah that could be it :whistle:

[SS#1230]

Probably not a wastegate... it's a surge valve.


aka blowoff valve

[Ponyhntr]

aka blowoff valve

Also MISTAKENLY called a blowoff valve, but it's not! ;)

[BluBeaSSt]

Also MISTAKENLY called a blowoff valve, but it's not! ;)


What do you think you work at Procharger or something? :laugh:

[SS#1230]

so whats the difference?

does the "surge" valve not have a vacuum line connected to it???

[Ponyhntr]

so whats the difference?

does the "surge" valve not have a vacuum line connected to it???

Read this thread. ;)

http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271

[SS#1230]

when you wrote "surge", i thought you meant BOV. from the thread you wanted me to read, you are stating that the bypass and the surge are the same thing.

ive never heard a bypass valve being called a surge vavle. i assumed that one would also call the BOV a surge valve because it opperates when the air surge (wave) occurs from the TB blades suddenly closing while the motor/blower are at high rpm.

do you call the bypass valve a surge valve because it helps prevent the "blower surge" you mentioned?

now i know you will agree that powerdyne SCs are junk, but they and some others say that a bypass vavle is not needed at lower boost levels (which is why the powerdynes dont come with any type of bypass/BOV). anyway, i was wondering why the blower would cause surging under normal driving conditions without a bypass valve to recirc. the air....unless there is turbulant air flow and the MAF is located between the blower and TB (like yours). remember, the standard location for the MAF is in the intake side of the SC (at least it is on the vortech kit).

ive got another question for you. what did you do to tune for the PO103? mine went nuts when i hit boost the 3rd time after putting on the blower. im sure you had the same problem with the amount of boost your running!


later,
Jeremy

[Ponyhntr]

when you wrote "surge", i thought you meant BOV. from the thread you wanted me to read, you are stating that the bypass and the surge are the same thing.

ive never heard a bypass valve being called a surge vavle. i assumed that one would also call the BOV a surge valve because it opperates when the air surge (wave) occurs from the TB blades suddenly closing while the motor/blower are at high rpm.

do you call the bypass valve a surge valve because it helps prevent the "blower surge" you mentioned?

now i know you will agree that powerdyne SCs are junk, but they and some others say that a bypass vavle is not needed at lower boost levels (which is why the powerdynes dont come with any type of bypass/BOV). anyway, i was wondering why the blower would cause surging under normal driving conditions without a bypass valve to recirc. the air....unless there is turbulant air flow and the MAF is located between the blower and TB (like yours). remember, the standard location for the MAF is in the intake side of the SC (at least it is on the vortech kit).

ive got another question for you. what did you do to tune for the PO103? mine went nuts when i hit boost the 3rd time after putting on the blower. im sure you had the same problem with the amount of boost your running!


later,
Jeremy

In the industry the tearms surge valve and bypass valve are used interchangeably, and they are the same thing. BOV's are NOT surge or bypass valves. They operate differently.

You are correct- on LOW boost systems (we recommend under 5 psi), a surge valve is not really needed, unless you have driveability problems.

The MAF can be in any location, draw-through (on the inlet side) or blow-through (pressure side). That is really up to the tuner's preferance, some will tell you that one way sucks, then you could ask another tuner and he could say that the other guy is wrong and this is the way to do it. Basically there is more than one way to skin a cat.

You talking about the MAF High Frequency code? In LT1 Edit and others there is 2 differnent places that you go in to to turn that code off. I don't remember exactly right now, but you set the "MAF High Frequnecy fail' limits way up so that it doesn't come on again.

[bricez28]

wait wait wait. so in oreder to have a supercharger you have to skin a cat? twice?

[SS#1230]

In the industry the tearms surge valve and bypass valve are used interchangeably, and they are the same thing. BOV's are NOT surge or bypass valves. They operate differently.

You are correct- on LOW boost systems (we recommend under 5 psi), a surge valve is not really needed, unless you have driveability problems.

The MAF can be in any location, draw-through (on the inlet side) or blow-through (pressure side). That is really up to the tuner's preferance, some will tell you that one way sucks, then you could ask another tuner and he could say that the other guy is wrong and this is the way to do it. Basically there is more than one way to skin a cat.

You talking about the MAF High Frequency code? In LT1 Edit and others there is 2 differnent places that you go in to to turn that code off. I don't remember exactly right now, but you set the "MAF High Frequnecy fail' limits way up so that it doesn't come on again.


yeah, the hi freq code. i ended up just buying the maf signal massager from procharger to solve that problem. only cost 300 bucks!

i want to start tuning but i dont know what program to go with. im not a rocket scientist so i need something that wont make me pull my hair out...

and LT1 edit is freakin expensive!!!!!

im thinking about getting a obd1 pcm and using tunercat, for cost savings and ease of use.

do you have any thoughts on what route i should go with tuning?

thanks,
Jeremy