Are diesels that cold blooded? [Archive]

KissMyWhtSS

01-19-2010, 03:45 AM

My dad has a '96 F350 that he hasn't driven in a while. It's a 7.4L turbo diesel, crewcab dually. It needs new batteries and anyway he needs to move it soon and was talking about towing it. He told me that even if he replaced the batteries it wouldn't want to start unless it was over 50* out. I hate to see him spend $100 to have it towed when he can get 2 new batteries for $150.

Any tips in getting it started? I'm half tempted to tell him to get in it and tow it in the Z71 for as far as it needs to go (few miles)

I trust his opinion -- I've learned a lot about cars from him and this isn't his first diesel (his third that I know of top of my head) but I hate to see him waste money if it can be easily started. It ran great about a year ago before he started letting it sit.

we have a decent 20" trailer but the trucks a bit too heavy to put on it. We'd probably be fine for as far as we need to go but I know he won't go for that idea and I don't blame him.

jaysz2893

01-19-2010, 07:03 AM

I thought trhe 7.3 had the option of an block heater. Look for a 120 volt plug and cord near the radiator. My old diesle tractor and my old 7.3 F250 have heaters. Even in the dead of winter i rarely plug them in. The glow plugs usually cycle longer (about 5 seconds more). If it has been sitting, i am sure the oil in the crankcase and the fuel is a little stiff. If there is no heater, they are availabe as ad-ons. he is correct in saying a cold diesel is harser to start, but not impossible.

SexyTransAm

01-19-2010, 07:36 AM

my 94 f250 7.3 has the block heater so i would think that one does too. and if ya cant get it maybe try spraying some brake clean in the air filter

Captain Dirtymax

01-19-2010, 10:02 AM

18 below and one dead battery in my Duramax last week and i still got her to fire up without having her plugged in. if you have to, just run jumper cables from the Z71 to the Powerstroke to help with starting her up.

Fixxer99TA

01-19-2010, 11:18 AM

and if ya cant get it maybe try spraying some brake clean in the air filter

Not a good idea. It says specifically in most diesels to NEVER spray ANYTHING in the intake to get it started. Brake clean? Brake kleen shouldent be anywhere near your cars intake system/oil system/anything important. Especially a diesel.

It should fire right up unless the fuel is bad somehow, you might even be able to jump it as described above. If the glowplugs are bad it might take a bit of cranking (If 94 powerstrokes have them, which Im almost positive they do) but it will still start.

Just need to crank enough to get the cylinders a little heat, and it will kick over as long as the fuel is still good. It might crank slow at first but once it gets going and you catch a couple cylinders it should be good. Im sure you will get some romping, but let it run until its hitting on all 8 (Im sure you have already seen this). My truck has only "Romped" once since ive owned it, and it was when my block heater cord frayed and I couldent plug it in on a -10 day. After a couple seconds and little light black smoke, all was good.

OutCast

01-19-2010, 11:38 AM

Just fixed this problem on my 97 F250. For the longest time I had to plug in the block heater to get it started if it were below 70* out. Replaced the glow plug relay and haven't had to use the block heater since. On the coldest days here in FL, which just happened to be in the high 20s last week, I let the glow plugs cycle twice (key on, wait, key off, key on, wait...start). Also be sure to check the underhood fuses with a test light. On one cold day I managed to pop 3 fuses, the glow plugs fuse, the IDM fuse, and one other. Good luck

KissMyWhtSS

01-19-2010, 12:09 PM

He said he searched the engine bay for a engine block heater and couldn't find anything. It use to be a texas truck so if it wasn't standard they might not have ordered it.

With 2 new batteries we shouldn't need to jump it. I thought about taking 2 trucks to it and jumping both batteries but it has been sitting for about a year.

Chris

01-19-2010, 12:14 PM

The fuel may be gel' If it is anything like our Semi yet again where my dad goes with our truck it reaches -40 or less and it can gel up while you are driving down the road. But if that fuel is a year old as well.

Formula 350

01-19-2010, 12:22 PM

Fixxer99TA

01-19-2010, 12:40 PM

You can spray starting fluid down the intake and it will pop off it till the diesel gets flowing. I know someone said that you shouldn't spray anything down the intake but with starting fluid you can and it won't hurt anything. I hope this helps.

Might want to disable the glowplug system before you "try" this, unless you want what you just sprayed to ignite in your face.

OutCast

01-19-2010, 02:09 PM

DO NOT spray anything in the take, just browse any diesel forum and you will see that it's just a BAD idea. Open the cap on the fuel bowl and see if it's filling up. Check the glow plug replay and see if it's working. If there is a block heater on it you will find the plugs near the bottom of the radiator on the driver's side.

Fixxer99TA

01-19-2010, 02:24 PM

Captain Dirtymax

01-19-2010, 02:51 PM

You can spray starting fluid down the intake and it will pop off it till the diesel gets flowing. I know someone said that you shouldn't spray anything down the intake but with starting fluid you can and it won't hurt anything. I hope this helps.

NEVER EVER do this!!! it's the greatest way of getting a "runaway". that's when the engine suddenly starts accelerating till it literally comes apart. because starting fluid isn't metered by the injection pump, that engine will take off like a bat outta hell. and if you think that a diesel won't rev up quickly, watch what happens when you do have a runaway. half a second is all it takes for the Cummins ISX engine to hit redline on a runaway, and that's a 15 liter engine.

KissMyWhtSS

01-20-2010, 01:03 AM

I'm not planning on putting anything in the intake. Only time I've ever done that is on a '60-70's SBC. Just a little fuel in the front 2 carbs. Never had any problem starting a newer car.

Talked to my dad today, he said he got a quote for $80 to tow it. I told him he's wasting his money when he can have the truck fixed for $60 more. There was nothing wrong with it before then. He's going to have the tow truck try to jump it before having it towed though.

I've got a few more days to change his mind.

Fixxer99TA

01-20-2010, 08:58 AM

Yeah, at least see if the tow truck will try to jump it.

You still might have it set right there.

SexyTransAm

01-20-2010, 07:10 PM

Not a good idea. It says specifically in most diesels to NEVER spray ANYTHING in the intake to get it started. Brake clean? Brake kleen shouldent be anywhere near your cars intake system/oil system/anything important. Especially a diesel.
yes i know this but its just an old farm truck. it needs glow plugs but i cant find the time to change em im always workin on my 95 or my 80. and with out new glow plugs it dont wanna start if its under like 40 if it aint been pluged in. the truck has like 325k on it.

OutCast

01-20-2010, 08:25 PM

it's pretty uncommon for ALL eight of the glow plugs to be bad. If it's not even coughing or sneezing when you turn it over then I'm betting the GPR (glow plug relay) is bad or the IDM (injector driver module) has a blown fuse or has gone bad itself. Have you checked the fuses under the hood? If not, just do yourself the favor and take 5 minutes with a test light and probe both sides of each fuse. You can also check the GPR with a test light to verify the glow plugs are getting juiced.

I've had it happen twice on my 97 and the first time I went as far as to replace the fuel pump on the truck which is quite a PITA. Finished the fuel pump after working on it for a couple nights after work only to have it still not start. Checked the fuses, found one bad, replaced it, started the truck, inserted face into palm, lol.

chevymec

01-20-2010, 11:21 PM

What are the 2 starter soleniod looking parts up on the intake? I haven't messed for Fords much but my father-n-law had to repalce 1 a few years ago when his truck was taking a long time to start. He couldn't remember what they were called.

OutCast

01-21-2010, 09:11 AM

one of them is the GPR, you should hear it click pretty loud when you turn the key, before starting.

Fixxer99TA

01-21-2010, 09:14 AM

one of them is the GPR, you should hear it click pretty loud when you turn the key, before starting.

X2, you will hear a very audible click if its still working.

chevymec

01-21-2010, 04:26 PM

GPR= Glow Plug Relay??

OutCast

01-21-2010, 04:33 PM

you got it

Fixxer99TA

01-22-2010, 12:39 PM

Any luck Eric?

I want to hear how this went...

KissMyWhtSS

01-22-2010, 12:44 PM

Any luck Eric?

I want to hear how this went...
We're moving it Tomorrow. I'm assuming the plan is still to have a tow truck try to jump it and if it doesn't start to have it towed. Kind of a waste of money IMO, but it's my dad so I'm not surprised. I'm leaving Manhattan in a few hours then I'm helping him out Saturday morning before I head back to Manhattan for a friends 21st at Midnight on Sat.

Fixxer99TA

01-22-2010, 12:49 PM

Sounds a little like my father, haha...

You should be able to get it, let us know what happens.

Captain Dirtymax

01-22-2010, 03:22 PM

yes i know this but its just an old farm truck. it needs glow plugs but i cant find the time to change em im always workin on my 95 or my 80. and with out new glow plugs it dont wanna start if its under like 40 if it aint been pluged in. the truck has like 325k on it.

so you'd risk spending $6k on a rebuilt 7.3 over spending a couple hundred on getting the original problem fixed???

Formula 350

01-22-2010, 03:56 PM

sorry i guess i can be done on a old diesel engine. I have seen It done may of times but Im no expert. It has always been a small small shot to help it start.

97lt1camaro

01-22-2010, 07:48 PM

If its not starting in that weather you have some other issues at hand. 50* should not be cold enough to cause it not to start. Hell, at work we had a 01 F350 diesel that would start in -20* CELCIUS without being plugged in.

SexyTransAm

01-23-2010, 02:07 AM

so you'd risk spending $6k on a rebuilt 7.3 over spending a couple hundred on getting the original problem fixed???

lol we didnt pay that much for the truck. if it goes no rebuild here. but the prob will be fixed soon

Holset

01-28-2010, 12:40 AM

OutCast

01-28-2010, 01:30 PM

Ether is fine if you do it right. To save your glow plugs, make sure you start cranking it before it starts getting sprayed in. Just remember, if you're gelled up, all the ether in the world won't do you any good. And as for all diesels being cold blooded, every HPCR pickup engine pops off like a champ in the winter. My 04 started for me at -20 according to the overhead without being plugged in. My 12 valves always started for me too, but it puts up more of a fight.

Obviously the OP is not familiar with diesels, I would never recommend it to them. What you decide to do on your own is up to you.

This debate is similar to heating up a nitrous bottle with a torch. Does it work? Yes. Can things go very wrong? Yes. Would I do it...HELL NO.

KissMyWhtSS

01-28-2010, 02:29 PM

Obviously the OP is not familiar with diesels, I would never recommend it to them. What you decide to do on your own is up to you.

This debate is similar to heating up a nitrous bottle with a torch. Does it work? Yes. Can things go very wrong? Yes. Would I do it...HELL NO.

Do you even know who the OP is? Did I ever mention anything about pouring starting fluid/wd40 down the trucks intake? Clearify your statements before calling someone out.

OutCast

01-28-2010, 04:20 PM

Do I care who the OP is?

you know what, I'm here trying to help YOU "the OP" from those telling you it's ok to use ether. My mistake about trying to give you some advice, good luck with the truck asshole.

BTW.....My previous post (#31) was directed at Holset...not you "OP".

Holset

01-28-2010, 05:43 PM

I have used either on many, many diesel many, many times for years. Engines ranging from 5-15 liters, from 30 to 0 years old. You WILL NOT* hurt anything if you do it right. I don't want to start a pissing match, but it is just the way it is. I've even known a few wicked engines that needed it to start :devil:. That said it is certainly not something you should use for every no-start condition lol.

*obviously shit happens, it is a general statement

Captain Dirtymax

01-30-2010, 12:34 AM

lol we didnt pay that much for the truck. if it goes no rebuild here. but the prob will be fixed soon

cheapest 7.3 i found was $952. but it had split both heads clean in half (the guy is an idiot, thought he could run 60psi off a 70mm turbo and never have a problem with the truck).

KissMyWhtSS

01-31-2010, 09:07 PM

He had it towed to a local shop and had the glow plugs, glow plug relay, and batteries replaced. Same thing I would've done but I would've done it there and saved myself the labor and towing costs. Ahh, the joys of having too much money.

He drove it around a little and said it fires up like a champ now. Also, the mechanic found the block heater cable so it does have one.