Tuning question- timing with 21* Trickflows

**Catmaigne** · 06-06-2017, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Badazz96z28

I've definitely learned a lesson, learn to tune yourself with the help of others that are knowledgeable and don't believe the hype from others raving about a tuner without seeing proof. I'd be willing to bet many of the ones complimenting this tuner have never scanned their car to see what's going on or have a before/after results.

This x1000. All of the mail orders I've received were garbage despite stellar reviews online. I doubt any of those people have ever opened Tunerpro or other software and thoroughly gone through the .bin. This tuner forgot to uncheck an air pump code, put the wrong injector info in, locked the car in open loop (despite explicitly asking for closed loop MAF), had super aggressive timing, IAC park position was jacked up, etc. I took his tune and a few others as examples and made my own spin-off that works great.

I run about 34-35 degrees of total timing (30-31 in the table) with my AFR 210 headed 383 and made 425/383 std (414/372 sae) with a similar sized cam. I'm down about 2.5-3 points CR so I probably need a few more degrees than a NA motor. I went on Karl Ellwein's site and looked at some engine dynos to get an idea of how much was needed with an aftermarket head to dial the timing back. A more efficient chamber and higher CR should mean less timing, no idea why the tuner I used thought I needed 40* up top.

**Badazz96z28** · 06-06-2017, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Catmaigne

This x1000. All of the mail orders I've received were garbage despite stellar reviews online. I doubt any of those people have ever opened Tunerpro or other software and thoroughly gone through the .bin.

I agree. I believe those of us that do have issues with these tuners need to voice our experience and concerns so others don't fall into the same trap we did. But that likely won't stand because the tuner I used is a site sponsor, so surely it can't be anything he did wrong, it must be a mechanical problem or Opti or bla bla bla, surely not tune related.

Luckily there are some genuine people here that are willing to lend a hand and help out. At the end of the day we should be coming together to help improve each other's car to the best of its capabilities and show the LS world they can still be smoked by an old LT with an Optispark.

**MoeHorsePower** · 06-07-2017, 06:17 AM

I will say I am the tuner, Dennis if your are going to bash me please tell the whole story, I sent you a tune and you said you lost horsepower, I told you to send back the pcm and I would pay for shipping cost you refused, I asked what was the air fuel, you would never tell me, The most important thing you forgot to mentioned is you changed out your exhaust to a larger diameter size AFTER your last tune with another tuner, then you told me that you had changed your exhaust first, I even copied and pasted what you said, here it is.

I ran the car on the dyno, it had the XS Power 3/3 tp 3" Y on it. I just recently changed that to the 3/3-4". I dont know how much difference that makes but figured it be worth mentioning.

Yes sometimes bigger is not better. I kept telling you that your motor might like more maybe less timing, maybe a richer or leaner air fuel mixture, but you kept bashing me, I offered to keep adjusting the tune to see if timing and air fuel would help make more horsepower and again I would pay for all shipping you refused. You make it seem like I did a tune, sent it to you and just said, well thats just the way it goes. Tell the whole story.

**Badazz96z28** · 06-07-2017, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by MoeHorsePower

I will say I am the tuner, Dennis if your are going to bash me please tell the whole story, I sent you a tune and you said you lost horsepower, I told you to send back the pcm and I would pay for shipping cost you refused, I asked what was the air fuel, you would never tell me, The most important thing you forgot to mentioned is you changed out your exhaust to a larger diameter size AFTER your last tune with another tuner, then you told me that you had changed your exhaust first, I even copied and pasted what you said, here it is.

I ran the car on the dyno, it had the XS Power 3/3 tp 3" Y on it. I just recently changed that to the 3/3-4". I dont know how much difference that makes but figured it be worth mentioning.

Yes sometimes bigger is not better. I kept telling you that your motor might like more maybe less timing, maybe a richer or leaner air fuel mixture, but you kept bashing me, I offered to keep adjusting the tune to see if timing and air fuel would help make more horsepower and again I would pay for all shipping you refused. You make it seem like I did a tune, sent it to you and just said, well thats just the way it goes. Tell the whole story.

Don't worry, the whole story will be told, there will be a thread about my experience with you when I have time to lay it all out. The biggest problem is you can't seem to keep things in order from conversations, who your customers are, and what you've done for them. You want to twist things to make yourself look better, it isn't gonna happen his time...

**MoeHorsePower** · 06-07-2017, 08:42 AM

So everything I said is not true? I have all of the emails you sent where you stated you changed the exhaust after the first tune then you Said it before then When I called you out on it you said you were done, even tho you kept bashing me I still offered help, I can see now I'm dealing with an immature child, I will be at the shoot out if you would like to discuss more of this issue.

**Tony Shepherd** · 06-07-2017, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Badazz96z28

Don't worry, the whole story will be told, there will be a thread about my experience with you when I have time to lay it all out. The biggest problem is you can't seem to keep things in order from conversations, who your customers are, and what you've done for them. You want to twist things to make yourself look better, it isn't gonna happen his time...

Dennis,

I suggest you watch what you say. Bashing someone online may not be the answer. Moe is an awesome tuner who has tuned my car many times in the last 20 years. He knows his stuff and I owe my tuning knowledge to him. His customer satisfaction from hundreds of customers over the last two decades is very good. Mail order tunes are hard to get 100% right because of all the unknown data and variables. He has had great success on mail order and dyno tunes. I don't appreciate your childish online bashing of him when all he wants to do is make it right for you. Moe , I say continue to offer to help him get it right, if he declines, post up all the emails. I would love to see it. From what I can see so far Dennis does not know what the hell he is doing.

Tony Shepherd

**MoeHorsePower** · 06-07-2017, 10:30 AM

Thanks Tony, I can understand someone doing a mod and or getting a tune and loosing horsepower can make you upset, but what I dont understand when I offered help and even to pay all of the shipping cost he refused and kept telling me basically I didnt know what I was doing, Go figure.