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Thread: MSD Cap and Rotor
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01-01-2018, 01:53 PM #121Lurker
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- Johnny
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- 1994 formula A4
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The Following User Says Thank You to fullforce For This Post:
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04-04-2018, 12:13 AM #122
For my '94 Camaro, I had 2 no name distributors and one Summit. They all had grease in the housing, but the no name units had so much grease that it got on the disc, code 36. Further looking into it, the bearing was blowing oil out the seal. My Summit opti lasted just over a year, although less grease in the housing, disc was dry, Code 16. I'm sure the bearing grease kills the sensors, but the Summit unit has me at a loss. For the record, my water pump is containing coolant just fine, and I too RTV'ed the sensor outlet.
I just installed a new MSD, unfortunately I didn't read all of this. Hoping my unit is the latest revision, I took it for a short drive, everything seems fine, but that means nothing. I'm hoping that it works for a very long time. My box has a date stamp of 01/18/18
LorenzoLast edited by Z28Zo; 04-04-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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04-04-2018, 08:18 AM #123LTx Guru
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- Fred
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I just realized I never followed up on this. When we found the erratic signal problem with the MSD Opti, MSD asked the owner to return it for inspection/testing. Based on what they found, confirming the problem and it’s source, they indicated they had made changes to the sensor and the cap. They rebuilt and returned the MSD to the owner.
He didn’t reinstall it, because his cheap Chinese rip-off was working fine. About a month ago he reinstalled the MSD. After reinstalling the rebuilt MSD, the engine refused to start. Nothing he did could get the engine to run with the rebuilt MSD. Case closed.SOLD - GONE TO A (VERY) GOOD HOME ! - 94 Formula A3+1: 381ci forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / CC solid roller / TH400+GearVendors OD / 4.11 Strange 12-bolt / 300-shot N2O / Spohn Suspension / roll bar / MoTeC M48 Pro engine management system /a few other odds 'n ends.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Injuneer For This Post:
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04-04-2018, 10:01 AM #124
I am cringing. I love this engine, things should not be like this.
The optispark chambers need to be sealed from one another. In theory, mount a Teflon or some sort of dry lip shaft seal on the mid base, something similar to the distributor seal on the gen 2 timing cover; have the seal ride on a raised rotor base, sealing edge facing the cap. That would completely keep the ozone away from the sensor. I would atmospherically vent the cap, but still actively vent the sensor chamber. Rubber casing seals only.
Mitsubishi sensors.... if they are truely recycling them on an ACD Refurb, even if I found one, it would be 25 years old. I cannot rely on that. But I cannot rely on anything new! There are plenty of these engines to go around even today. Why can’t anyone just do the right thing with these distributors?! No one should not have to convert this system to something else. The opti is a good idea, and it can work....My apologies, this was meant to convey an idea and it turned into a rant...
And yes, the MSD issue covered here is a completely different problem.
LorenzoLast edited by Z28Zo; 04-04-2018 at 11:48 AM.
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04-04-2018, 01:11 PM #125LTX Member
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- Jeff Green
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- 1996 Impala SS
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FWIW -- I'll be the guy that actually says the Opti is not a bad design and can be reliable. I totally agree with the MSD comments and never had one of those units work for any length of time. Here are the quick items I have seen. I beat on my Opti at 7K all day long for years at a time with few issues.
1. The opti sensor is just that, a sensor. Not a mechanical part. It's just a light sensor.
2. I believe heat to be more of an issue to the sensor other than contaminates.
3. There is not much that should go wrong if you think about it. It's a spinning wheel, only going half the RPM your engine is, with a light sensor. Add a cap and rotor and that's its.
4. The bearing must be tight, no wobble. I have seen too many new/rebuilt units that have no chance to work because it's already too loose.
With that said here are the issue i have seen that caused problems.
1. The cam pin not the correct length. So what happens is if it's too long it pushes the shaft and rotor out which causes all kinds of issues. The disc can hit the sensor and the distributor is in a bind. Also check the cam end play as it can cause the same issues pushing on the Opti as the engine changes load.
2. Cooling the Opti is important. As you put that big cam in your car you lose vac and that in turn creates no or very little air flow in the opti.
3. Another trick is to space the water pump out just a little. This gives more air gap to the front of the Opti and reduces heat more than you would think. Just running double or triple water pump gaskets can help.
The rest of the things you should do are what everyone already talks about. I go two or three years between losing a sensor and that's acceptable to me considering what I'm doing to them. There are lots of things that are more reliable than an Opti but few could be considered more accurate for cam timing. No one is wrong if they get rid of it but it does work great if you set it up to win.
Knowing my luck I'll lose an Opti that's been used for three year with no issues next time I'm around everyone. But they are a reliable unit in my book.
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04-04-2018, 01:12 PM #126LTX Member
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- Mar 2015
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- Jeff Green
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- 1996 Impala SS
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- Fishers, Indiana
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- 67
FWIW -- I'll be the guy that actually says the Opti is not a bad design and can be reliable. I totally agree with the MSD comments and never had one of those units work for any length of time. Here are the quick items I have seen. I beat on my Opti at 7K all day long for years at a time with few issues.
1. The opti sensor is just that, a sensor. Not a mechanical part. It's just a light sensor.
2. I believe heat to be more of an issue to the sensor other than contaminates.
3. There is not much that should go wrong if you think about it. It's a spinning wheel, only going half the RPM your engine is, with a light sensor. Add a cap and rotor and that's its.
4. The bearing must be tight, no wobble. I have seen too many new/rebuilt units that have no chance to work because it's already too loose.
With that said here are the issue i have seen that caused problems.
1. The cam pin not the correct length. So what happens is if it's too long it pushes the shaft and rotor out which causes all kinds of issues. The disc can hit the sensor and the distributor is in a bind. Also check the cam end play as it can cause the same issues pushing on the Opti as the engine changes load.
2. Cooling the Opti is important. As you put that big cam in your car you lose vac and that in turn creates no or very little air flow in the opti.
3. Another trick is to space the water pump out just a little. This gives more air gap to the front of the Opti and reduces heat more than you would think. Just running double or triple water pump gaskets can help.
The rest of the things you should do are what everyone already talks about. I go two or three years between losing a sensor and that's acceptable to me considering what I'm doing to them. There are lots of things that are more reliable than an Opti but few could be considered more accurate for cam timing. No one is wrong if they get rid of it but it does work great if you set it up to win.
Knowing my luck I'll lose an Opti that's been used for three year with no issues next time I'm around everyone. But they are a reliable unit in my book.
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