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  1. #21
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    Mike Storm "Stormy"
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    No its running rich like give you a headache rich. And there was kids next door playing had to shut it down mother was complaining of smell. Ill go Sunday. I think my injectors are clogged. Cause it rich all the time I think Its stock other then cold air and catback . I limped it home plugs aren't fouled yet and the misfire is in the exhaust more like little explosion's. Have to crank.. it a bit to start. Car was running great on the way to work parked it np. Then went to the parts store then I noticed it wasn't right. Took off from work got on it dude at work said a big gas smelling cloud came out the pipes. Got home a revved it the next day pew nasty gas smell like vaporized smell. parked it and here we are.
    Last edited by Stormyweather; 09-09-2016 at 11:10 PM.

  2. #22
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    What is the fuel pressure at idle with the regulator vacuum hose connected? What is it without being connected?

    1998 Trans Am - LS1/A4 - all stock and almost all original - one owner - driven daily.
    Author of Scan9495, free pc apps 93-95 LT1,94/95 L32: http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread...light=scan9495

  3. #23
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    You've got to fix the right O2 sensor. It's so static (operating mostly within the range 350-550mV) it often causes the PCM to disable fuel trims and drop out of closed loop. The left O2 sensor is covering a normal range, and telling the PCM it's running rich, but the PCM can't correct for the rich condition, because it can't "learn".

    Left O2 range: 27mV to 946mV, average 804mV

    Right O2 range: 333mV to 684mV, average 527mV

    You indicated earlier that when the fuel pump primes and shuts off, the pressure drops rapidly. That can be caused by leaking injectors. You can check for leaking injectors by pulling the fuel rails up with the injectors intact, and priming the fuel pump to build pressure (DO NOT TURN THE KEY TO "START"). DO THIS ONLY OUTDOORS, WITH A COLD ENGINE, TO AVOID A FIRE. HAVE AN EXTINGUISHER NEARBY.

    And as Gary indicated, you have to check the fuel pressure at idle, with and without the vacuum line connected.
    SOLD - GONE TO A (VERY) GOOD HOME ! - 94 Formula A3+1: 381ci forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / CC solid roller / TH400+GearVendors OD / 4.11 Strange 12-bolt / 300-shot N2O / Spohn Suspension / roll bar / MoTeC M48 Pro engine management system /a few other odds 'n ends.

  4. #24
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    When the right O2 sensor is working well enough to allow closed loop, and fuel trims, the Cell 18 LEFT long term fuel trim (LTFT, or BLM) drops to 108 (pulling out 15% fuel, and the RIGHT goes up to 160 adding 25% extra fuel. The short term trims are pulling out another 35% on the LEFT side, and adding another55% on the RIGHT side. The LEFT injector pulse width is 2.xx mSec, and the RIGHT pulse width is 8.xx mSec. I have never seen the fuel screwed up that badly in my 15 years of looking at these data logs.

    If it's pouring in that much fuel, and running that rich, you may be diluting the oil with fuel. Check the oil for gasoline smell. If it smells, STOP driving the car, before you damage the engine.
    SOLD - GONE TO A (VERY) GOOD HOME ! - 94 Formula A3+1: 381ci forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / CC solid roller / TH400+GearVendors OD / 4.11 Strange 12-bolt / 300-shot N2O / Spohn Suspension / roll bar / MoTeC M48 Pro engine management system /a few other odds 'n ends.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryDoug View Post
    What is the fuel pressure at idle with the regulator vacuum hose connected? What is it without being connected?
    Thanks guys again. The pressure 40 at idle with, then up to 47 without. I waited 5 min or so to see if the FPR would spit gas, and other than the area smelling like gas fumes didn't smell gas there.

  6. #26
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    And to make it even more confusing, at idle (Cell 16) it's pulling out fuel on both banks (108 LTFT both sides, 80 STFT left, 102 STFT right).
    SOLD - GONE TO A (VERY) GOOD HOME ! - 94 Formula A3+1: 381ci forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / CC solid roller / TH400+GearVendors OD / 4.11 Strange 12-bolt / 300-shot N2O / Spohn Suspension / roll bar / MoTeC M48 Pro engine management system /a few other odds 'n ends.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injuneer View Post
    You've got to fix the right O2 sensor. It's so static (operating mostly within the range 350-550mV) it often causes the PCM to disable fuel trims and drop out of closed loop. The left O2 sensor is covering a normal range, and telling the PCM it's running rich, but the PCM can't correct for the rich condition, because it can't "learn".

    Left O2 range: 27mV to 946mV, average 804mV

    Right O2 range: 333mV to 684mV, average 527mV

    You indicated earlier that when the fuel pump primes and shuts off, the pressure drops rapidly. That can be caused by leaking injectors. You can check for leaking injectors by pulling the fuel rails up with the injectors intact, and priming the fuel pump to build pressure (DO NOT TURN THE KEY TO "START"). DO THIS ONLY OUTDOORS, WITH A COLD ENGINE, TO AVOID A FIRE. HAVE AN EXTINGUISHER NEARBY.

    And as Gary indicated, you have to check the fuel pressure at idle, with and without the vacuum line connected.
    Thanks again great help but a lot more questions. What's a good brand of O2's? I was getting bad mileage around 15 mpg tried sea foam awhile ago even changed the plugs then, all a little tan. Is rebuilding and cleaning the injectors a good idea or do buy new? Any trick on removing the O2's?

  8. #28
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    Use only AC Delco O2 sensors. The O2 sensors usually are easier to get out if the exhaust is hot. If you are discarding the sensors you can use rust penetrant. If reusing, don't use penetrant. An O2 sensor socket is best, but may not fit due to nearby parts. If discarding the sensor you can cut the wires off and use ia 6-point box wrench. A 12-point box or an open end wrench can round the hex off if they are really stuck.

    Have you checked to see if the injectors are leaking? If not, you don't know if they need to be replaced or cleaned.

    Your fuel pressure is a bit on the high side, but within GM tolerance. "Correct" pressure is 43.5psi with the vacuum line off. But GM indicates anything between 41-47psi is OK. The fact that yours drops about 7psi with the vacuum connected is OK.
    SOLD - GONE TO A (VERY) GOOD HOME ! - 94 Formula A3+1: 381ci forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / CC solid roller / TH400+GearVendors OD / 4.11 Strange 12-bolt / 300-shot N2O / Spohn Suspension / roll bar / MoTeC M48 Pro engine management system /a few other odds 'n ends.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injuneer View Post
    Use only AC Delco O2 sensors. The O2 sensors usually are easier to get out if the exhaust is hot. If you are discarding the sensors you can use rust penetrant. If reusing, don't use penetrant. An O2 sensor socket is best, but may not fit due to nearby parts. If discarding the sensor you can cut the wires off and use ia 6-point box wrench. A 12-point box or an open end wrench can round the hex off if they are really stuck.

    Have you checked to see if the injectors are leaking? If not, you don't know if they need to be replaced or cleaned.

    Your fuel pressure is a bit on the high side, but within GM tolerance. "Correct" pressure is 43.5psi with the vacuum line off. But GM indicates anything between 41-47psi is OK. The fact that yours drops about 7psi with the vacuum connected is OK.
    Thanks again for the help.
    Ok sorry it took a bit to respond I work on boats all week and some times a guy just likes to be lazy. Any way did the on prime injector leak test 7 out of 8 stayed dry # 4 got the towel pretty wet and you can hear it cant see it cause im no sited cant see shi t. anyway what's say I buy new Accel 24# or is AC the only way to go? You don't know how happy I am to find the bad injector. Hope I didn't hurt the engine. As soon as I find some duckits and get the parts I'll do another scan. I am trying to get it set up to run some brackets next yer nothing crazy just like going fast. Thanks
    Last edited by Stormyweather; 09-13-2016 at 07:01 PM.



    1995 Trans Am - CAI - TB coolant bypass - Headers & Performance Muffler - Poly mounts - stock LT1/A4 - 13.3 1/4 - 1.9 60 foot , driven daily.
    2008 C6 Corvette LS3 Snake charmer Ram Air intake. 6 Speed Switchable mild to wild exhaust.
    2002 Silverado LT Extd Cab Z71 5.3 A4 Composite Bed Stock

  10. #30
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    Never used the Accel injectors, but in the 18 years I've been helping on sites like this, I've seen a few people with negative results. Are you thinking one replacement or a full set? If you feel you need a full set, look at rebuilt GM Multec (stock injectors).
    SOLD - GONE TO A (VERY) GOOD HOME ! - 94 Formula A3+1: 381ci forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / CC solid roller / TH400+GearVendors OD / 4.11 Strange 12-bolt / 300-shot N2O / Spohn Suspension / roll bar / MoTeC M48 Pro engine management system /a few other odds 'n ends.

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