POPOs TOP END build thread....

[popo8]

So after discovering a busted valve spring on my stock "ish" Lt1 heads.... I jumped in with both feet, after a fello member pointed me in the direction of some beautiful heads....


Lets start with a pic of the BROKEN.... (I know its small)7758

We also, just made the assumption that the valve may have bent, but BLUEBOTTLEZ can explain that.....

[popo8]

So the plan.... GO BIG, or GO HOME.....

I was pointed in the directions of these:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1450840-brand-new-lt4-afr-227-heads-1126-a.html

At $2300, they were much cheaper than the near $2700 price Ive been seeing......... and they are still new....never installed.

77637762776177607759


THESE ARE THE 1126s..... Race ready, CNC'd, yada yada yada..... (as you can tell Im excited....)



COMPARISON PRICE: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AFR-SMALL-BLOCK-CHEVY-227cc-LT4-RACING-HEADS-1126-/270364137122?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ef2f556a2

[popo8]

Then people started telling me, I needed the LT4 intake..... So I asked him, and he had the edelbrock "air gap" LT4 intake.....

776477657766



I purchased the heads and intake for a savings of about 500 bucks shipped, and its all new.....


Comparison price http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Edelbrock-7109-Intake-Manifold-Lt4-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dLVIQ26ituQ3dUC IQ26otnQ3d4Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d2812030 974385689744QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ38036791535 2

Trust me, after PARRISH, Im very skeptical.... but, I continue to "trust."



I think I can reuse my LT1 valve covers, if I do some clearance work.......



Now, I need to start figuring out all my odds and ends....

-Shaft mounted rockers.......
-gaskets.....
-and a legit blower cam....


If anyone can think of the stuff Im missing, please let me know...... and if you have any suggestions for "decent" priced items on my odds and ends list.... also let me know......

[BlackWidowSS]

Like I said man, we need to figure out what your compression ratio NEEDS to be and what it WILL be as is so we know if the heads need to be milled, what thickness gaskets you need, etc etc etc.

We need to know:
What pistons you have
What your deck height on your block is (if it has been decked)
Chamber Size of the new heads

Once we know all that we can figure out what else needs to be done to get your Static Compression Ratio to the right place. Once we have that where you need it we can get you a cam spec'd out that will give you a good low end, a great top end, streetability, and a good Dynamic Compression Ratio. Like I told you before...forget about getting "high dyno numbers" and focus on setting it up for that 1/4 mile...Then whatever you dyno won't matter because it will support the numbers at the track and on the street...

If you focus on getting big numbers, yeah it will be cool to tell people you have some huge dyno numbers, but when you go to race you could end up a dog at the track and losing to a lesser vehicle.

[CamaroZGuy]

sounds like you got a good set up there.....i will still suggest talking to LE, AI to get a cam spec'd.

[BlackWidowSS]

I threw in a few numbers into the formula for your Static Compression Ratio just to get an idea of where you are and this is what I got...

Bore - 4.040
Stroke - 3.750
Chamber - 65cc (Chamber size of the 227cc AFR Heads he purchased)
Pistons - -16cc Inverted Dome (I picked these because of his previous sub 10:1 compression ratio, not sure of exact size though)
Gasket Thickness - .026
Block Height - 9.015 (I chose this number because I don't think his block is zero decked but chances are it has had SOME work so I picked a happy medium)

With these numbers I came up with a 9.79:1 Static Compression Ratio.

This will vary and can be brought up or down depending on what you want by changing the gasket thickness, decking the block more (if possible), milling the heads, etc. Once you know the final details we can get that on point and once that is done we can focus on getting a cam set up that will get you a good Dynamic CR and make this thing a monster. Also look into the lifters and find out what you have in there...depending on what they are they may need to be upgraded, then pushrod length needs to be re-measured to ensure you have the right length in there.

[b-radlewis]

Is it possible to use the stock valve covers with shaftmount rockers?

[BLK95-Z]

Ive heard you can trim the baffles in the stock valve covers to clear bigger rockers. I havent ever heard anything about shaft mount though

[popo8]

Ive heard you can trim the baffles in the stock valve covers to clear bigger rockers. I havent ever heard anything about shaft mount though


I am gonna try......if it dont work, then I will get new ones......

[popo8]

sounds like you got a good set up there.....i will still suggest talking to LE, AI to get a cam spec'd.


Thank You man.... Im excited.......!!!!!

[CALL911]

subscribing...

[popo8]

subscribing...

;)

[popo8]

How do these look to my fellow LTXers????

Think they will do the job?

http://www.competitionproducts.com/Jesel-Sportsman-Shaft-Rockers-Chev-SB-Non-Eliminator/productinfo/KSS-366060/ (http://www.competitionproducts.com/Jesel-Sportsman-Shaft-Rockers-Chev-SB-Non-Eliminator/productinfo/KSS-366060/)


Conversing with myself but here goes....

Spoke with AFR today.... he advised me the 227s will give me lots of room to grow, and I wont be using them to their full potential, however he insisted that even with my current set up those heads and that Intake will dramatically increase my power....

As for the shaft mounted rockers that the guy I bought the other stuff from was selling...... they are not correct for those heads. They are non-eliminator, and my heads are the eliminators....

[IronOutlaw]

Ill converse with you but cant give any advice. lol. Car should haul though with those AFRs. What did your car trap in the 1/4 mile before it broke?

[joelster]

I have the same heads but mine are the RACE ported versions, POPO's are the COMP ported. The COMP ported flow more. They have an additional pass made in the cnc process. They are as good as it gets.

I run Jesel shaft rockers, they were just over $1000 at summitracing.

I run aftermarket proform valve covers, and had to remove the baffles to get them to fit. The baffles were screwed into the underside so it took 2 minutes to modify them.

If you run shaft rockers, you cannot run head studs on the top row. I have an ARP head stud kit, but had to purchase a full set of GMPP head bolts and use the long bolts for the top row. The studs stuck up too far and interfered with the shaft assembly. The head bolts sat flush and gave enough clearance for the shaft assembly. When using ARP head studs, use the teflon tape to seal them and a dab of liquid sealant. It should have resistance when you are inserting the stud. If it goes in relatively easy, you didn't use enough sealant, and it will probably leak.

AFR sells a set of rockers with an offset pushrod cup for use on 227cc heads. The rockers are around $300 iirc. You would want to run a girdle as well if you are running a big cam. Girdles will run $200-$300. So you can spend around $600 for stud rockers/girdle or $1000 for shaft rockers, whichever is your choice.

When installing the heads I had to grind down the middle washer to fit it between the valve springs. I also had to trim the edges off of the nut that goes onto the stud for the same hole. If you google it, you will see it is a common step to install these heads. It took me 5 minutes with a grinder.

I run pacesetter 1 3/4 headers and was fearing that i'd need to step up to a 1 7/8ths header to work. Not true. The 1 3/4 headers match up very well to the exhaust port, so far no issues whatsoever.

[CALL911]

Larry, did you ever find out what exactly was wrong with your car?

[popo8]

Ill converse with you but cant give any advice. lol. Car should haul though with those AFRs. What did your car trap in the 1/4 mile before it broke?

Never raced it.... my current set up wont fully use those heads, but I will have LOTS of room to grow....

[popo8]

I have the same heads but mine are the RACE ported versions, POPO's are the COMP ported. The COMP ported flow more. They have an additional pass made in the cnc process. They are as good as it gets.

I run Jesel shaft rockers, they were just over $1000 at summitracing.

I run aftermarket proform valve covers, and had to remove the baffles to get them to fit. The baffles were screwed into the underside so it took 2 minutes to modify them.

If you run shaft rockers, you cannot run head studs on the top row. I have an ARP head stud kit, but had to purchase a full set of GMPP head bolts and use the long bolts for the top row. The studs stuck up too far and interfered with the shaft assembly. The head bolts sat flush and gave enough clearance for the shaft assembly. When using ARP head studs, use the teflon tape to seal them and a dab of liquid sealant. It should have resistance when you are inserting the stud. If it goes in relatively easy, you didn't use enough sealant, and it will probably leak.

AFR sells a set of rockers with an offset pushrod cup for use on 227cc heads. The rockers are around $300 iirc. You would want to run a girdle as well if you are running a big cam. Girdles will run $200-$300. So you can spend around $600 for stud rockers/girdle or $1000 for shaft rockers, whichever is your choice.

When installing the heads I had to grind down the middle washer to fit it between the valve springs. I also had to trim the edges off of the nut that goes onto the stud for the same hole. If you google it, you will see it is a common step to install these heads. It took me 5 minutes with a grinder.

I run pacesetter 1 3/4 headers and was fearing that i'd need to step up to a 1 7/8ths header to work. Not true. The 1 3/4 headers match up very well to the exhaust port, so far no issues whatsoever.



Wow man, thank you for all the heads up..... I have to run the shaft mounted rockers because of how much street use it sees.... AFR recomends that as the only way to go for street use........

[popo8]

Larry, did you ever find out what exactly was wrong with your car?

Busted valve spring for sure....

Most prob a bent valve.....

Not sure if any damage to the piston till we pull the heads.....

[joelster]

If you run shaft rockers you can sell the rocker studs and guideplates since they won't be used.

[popo8]

If you run shaft rockers you can sell the rocker studs and guideplates since they won't be used.

You mean on the new motor? Because I am looking and trying to figure out why AFR wants a street car to be mandatory for SHaft mounts, and a race car to be able to go either way. It almost seems like that should be the reverse....

[joelster]

You mean on the new motor? Because I am looking and trying to figure out why AFR wants a street car to be mandatory for SHaft mounts, and a race car to be able to go either way. It almost seems like that should be the reverse....

Idling is harder on solid roller lifters than racing. That's why you typically see solid roller motors idling over 1000rpm. AFR is assuming that a race motor is going to have the valve covers off checking lash every weekend which is why they feel it's acceptable to run stud rockers for a race application. It's all about run-time. Take your car out for a 60 minute street cruise. Now, in order for you to have 60 minutes of run-time on a drag car you'd need to make about 40-45 dragstrip passes. That would be 3 or 4 races worth of time. Chances are a racer will check the lash a few times in that amount of run-time. No way would someone be checking the valve lash on their street car everytime they drove it. The intake rockers with the offset will have a side load placed on them at all times.

[popo8]

Idling is harder on solid roller lifters than racing. That's why you typically see solid roller motors idling over 1000rpm. AFR is assuming that a race motor is going to have the valve covers off checking lash every weekend which is why they feel it's acceptable to run stud rockers for a race application. It's all about run-time. Take your car out for a 60 minute street cruise. Now, in order for you to have 60 minutes of run-time on a drag car you'd need to make about 40-45 dragstrip passes. That would be 3 or 4 races worth of time. Chances are a racer will check the lash a few times in that amount of run-time. No way would someone be checking the valve lash on their street car everytime they drove it. The intake rockers with the offset will have a side load placed on them at all times.

Thank You man.....

Do you know if these will work with whatever hydraulic cam set up I get?

http://usedracingparts.com/cgi-bin/urp_class.cgi?md=vph&idnum=5462&idsubject=LIKE+NEW+JESEL+AFR+227+SHAFT+ROCKERS

[joelster]

You'd have to get a part number from the guy. AFR has made the 227's for a long time, and i'm not sure if the newer eliminators have the same geometry as the older 227's. Those could be for the older heads, but again, I don't know if they are the same thing or not.

[popo8]

You'd have to get a part number from the guy. AFR has made the 227's for a long time, and i'm not sure if the newer eliminators have the same geometry as the older 227's. Those could be for the older heads, but again, I don't know if they are the same thing or not.

Ok, so maybe I should contact AFR and see if that ever changed???

[joelster]

Or Jesel to see if they have different part numbers for different AFR 227 heads.

[popo8]

Ok, decided to work with Comp Cam.... see if they can provide me with a rocker/cam set up....

[popo8]

7863

Been speaking with COmp Cams.....

I am not sure what springs the new heads got, however I am going to take the heads out and have the springs "measured."

Once I have figured that out, it looks like Comp said they would do a custom grind, and here is the cam that is being suggested. IDK this stuff, will someone look at these numbers for me, and tell me if this is a good cam.....



Thank You......

[CALL911]

Larry, that looks like a pretty good healthy cam for your car. I almost would reccomed getting the LSA to a 114 instead of a 113, but that's just more of a personal opinion as I am sure they know what they are doing.

[popo8]

Larry, that looks like a pretty good healthy cam for your car. I almost would reccomed getting the LSA to a 114 instead of a 113, but that's just more of a personal opinion as I am sure they know what they are doing.

Thank you... I dont know ANY of this stuff...... so I appreciate any advice...

[joelster]

AFR heads can come with many different springs. They will have a colored stripe painted on them, or they will be chrome. They have a listing of the pressures and install heights on their webpage. When you order the heads typically there are several different springs you can choose which are no added cost, then there are several others which add $100 or more to the total cost. Mine came with the blue/black striped springs which are as follows:

blue/black:

AFR-8002 1.550 OD 165# @ 1.980 material Chrome Silicon, coil bind 1.180, rate 475lbs, max lift 650
blue - black stripe .725 ID 430# @ 1.430


All spring specs are here:

http://www.airflowresearch.com/valve_spec.php

[CALL911]

Thank you... I dont know ANY of this stuff...... so I appreciate any advice...


No problem.

Cams are really a preference item. Some want them just to make peak power. Others are chosen for driveability.

I wanted mine to lump, thump, and bump, and have an agressive sounding idle. I got all that, but I did sacrifice some potential power that could have been made with my blower setup had I of chosen a less agressive cam.

I am not an expert, and Fastbird when he is out will know more about them than me. But from what I do know, that should make some good power, and compliment your setup somewhere in the middle of having an agressive sound and feel like mine, but still make great power as well.

[F.G.]

very cool build popo. I wish you the best.

[popo8]

very cool build popo. I wish you the best.

Thank You..... so I asked my contact from COMP today how much the custom grind cam was going to cost me, and he quoted me a price under $300....

Does that sound right people??? I was expecting A LOT MORE COST!!!

[joelster]

That is very cheap.

[Ryan Stout]

That's cheap. My LE cam was $300, but he had Comp make it.

[popo8]

Ok, but thats the going rate????

When I said under $300, it was $297.... I prob should have been more specific.... lol

[joelster]

Mine was $572, lol.

[popo8]

Mine was $572, lol.

Is there a material for cams that I should be requesting from Comp? or are they all the same...?

[ksmyss]

Mine was a hair over $300 from cam motion when I had FMS make me one.

[popo8]

Been going back and forth (with the help of Fastbird) with Comp regarding the specs on my cam, to still give me street manners, and make the most of my new top end.... here is the lattest that was sent to me..

Anyone have any insight, because Im an idiot with this stuff...

You can see from my previous email, that I thought more of a split would be the best.





Here is what I would settle on…. 236/248 .579/.579 LSA I would go for a 113 or 114. You are really splitting hairs between the two recommendations at this point. That is what I feel would work best. Just let me know where you want to go, and I will make it happen.

[CALL911]

Larry,

Sean knows what he is talking about for can specs. I would trust his judgment.

[CamaroZGuy]

after a lot of emails with Loyd Elliott, i am going with his suggested cam...224/236 .560/.576 114 LSA over his 230/244 .598/.608 114 LSA. if you want i can PM his reasoning for the smaller cam.

[Fastbird]

after a lot of emails with Loyd Elliott, i am going with his suggested cam...224/236 .560/.576 114 LSA over his 230/244 .598/.608 114 LSA. if you want i can PM his reasoning for the smaller cam.

I'd be interested to see reasoning here myself.

Larry, I do like the surface specs of that comp cam above. What's the .006 duration on it? I think it would probably be a good blend of nasty and docile for you.

Postin' on the go......

[CamaroZGuy]

When I get back on my computer ill post his quote

[popo8]

after a lot of emails with Loyd Elliott, i am going with his suggested cam...224/236 .560/.576 114 LSA over his 230/244 .598/.608 114 LSA. if you want i can PM his reasoning for the smaller cam.


The thing with me, is that I seem to be the worlds most DENSEST person when it comes to cam numbers.... people repeatedly explain it to me, and all I hear is the teacher from charlie brown.... I know my new heads are BIG, and something about wanting like 600 lift.... but thats all I remember........

Now I see lift is under 600, and I dont know if thats better or worse..... so I come to you guys.,,, Ive come to Fastbird because like Call 911 said, I know he knows his stuff.....



I'd be interested to see reasoning here myself.

Larry, I do like the surface specs of that comp cam above. What's the .006 duration on it? I think it would probably be a good blend of nasty and docile for you.

Postin' on the go......

lol, I read this, and I see you questioning it, then "okaying it," Im an idiot.... ugh... Dumb it down for me please, is good? is bad? lol

[CamaroZGuy]

this is talking about my build and the two cams that i had previously posted. but i figured since popo's build is similar to mine it may be help full.




the smaller cam is more efficient with low boost and at lower RPM. The big cam works better when more boost is cramming the cylinders and at high RPM.

Overlap is when the intake and exhaust valve are open at the same time. Overlap and boost do not work well, it allows the boost to go out the exhaust valve instead of packing the cylinder and building boost.

The larger cam has 14 MORE degrees of overlap than the smaller cam so there is more boost lost out the ex valve and builds less boost. The larger the S/C and the more boost you create, the more you can get by with wasting out the tail pipe "assuming you are gonna spin enough RPM to actually use the gains of having the valve open longer with more duration and make the smaller cam limit cylinder filling".

The larger intake duration also keeps the intake valve open longer and you don't actually start trapping cylinder pressure until the intake valve closes. This is another reason that the smaller cam helps with lower boost set ups. It starts building boost sooner (less overlap putting wasting boost by going out the tail pipe and closes intake valve sooner so it starts trapping cylinder pressure sooner) so you make more HP/TQ at EVERY RPM up to 5500-6000 RPM where the larger cam will actually make the same HP and then surpass it and "can be" 20 HP better at 6500 RPM and "can be" 35 HP better at 7000 RPM.

Now when I say "CAN BE" above, I am talking about the potential of both camshafts only and to see these gains it will require no other restrictions in the set up. as long as you have a larger enough air inlet, MAF, duct work, TB size, fully ported intake, etc so that ALL of this can keep up at this RPM/HP level . . . . . . . . . . . AND a good enough cylinder head, header and exhaust system that can keep up at this RPM/HP level, it is "possible" to see these HP gains.

If trying to use a the stock S/C air inlet, F body MAF, factory elbow, un ported intake, 1 3/4 LT's, ORY and cat back exhaust, you will NEVER see this kinda gain at high RPM due to each and every one of these things being the restriction. If the heads are less than 2.200" at the pushrod pinch and less than a 2.08 intake valve, it will never show these gains with the larger cam at high RPM, even if you do have everything else that is free flowing.

SO, in order to see the gains at high RPM you will need a custom air inlet, duct work, MAF and elbow that allows ZERO difference in boost when checked at these points compared to boost in the intake.

You will need a 58 MM TB, fully ported intake, 2.08 intake valves, FULLY ported AFR 210's opened up to 2.200-2.400" at push rod pinch (if starting with an LT4 intake we can actually get 2.400" here), a set of 1 7/8 LT headers, 3" True Duals with X pipe, Bullet mufflers and dumps at rear end.

THIS set up would actually be able to see the 20/35 35 HP gains at 6500/7000 RPM over the small cam BUT the smaller cam will still make the same HP at 5500 RPM, 20 more HP at 4500 RPM and 40 more HP at 3000 RPM.

If you do not have all the parts mentioned to see the the gains at high RPM, there will be very little to no gains up there with the larger cam and so you might as well take advantage of the extra HP/TQ thru the entire RPM range of the smaller cam.

Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Elliottsportworks.com

[popo8]

this is talking about my build and the two cams that i had previously posted. but i figured since popo's build is similar to mine it may be help full.




the smaller cam is more efficient with low boost and at lower RPM. The big cam works better when more boost is cramming the cylinders and at high RPM.

Overlap is when the intake and exhaust valve are open at the same time. Overlap and boost do not work well, it allows the boost to go out the exhaust valve instead of packing the cylinder and building boost.

The larger cam has 14 MORE degrees of overlap than the smaller cam so there is more boost lost out the ex valve and builds less boost. The larger the S/C and the more boost you create, the more you can get by with wasting out the tail pipe "assuming you are gonna spin enough RPM to actually use the gains of having the valve open longer with more duration and make the smaller cam limit cylinder filling".

The larger intake duration also keeps the intake valve open longer and you don't actually start trapping cylinder pressure until the intake valve closes. This is another reason that the smaller cam helps with lower boost set ups. It starts building boost sooner (less overlap putting wasting boost by going out the tail pipe and closes intake valve sooner so it starts trapping cylinder pressure sooner) so you make more HP/TQ at EVERY RPM up to 5500-6000 RPM where the larger cam will actually make the same HP and then surpass it and "can be" 20 HP better at 6500 RPM and "can be" 35 HP better at 7000 RPM.

Now when I say "CAN BE" above, I am talking about the potential of both camshafts only and to see these gains it will require no other restrictions in the set up. as long as you have a larger enough air inlet, MAF, duct work, TB size, fully ported intake, etc so that ALL of this can keep up at this RPM/HP level . . . . . . . . . . . AND a good enough cylinder head, header and exhaust system that can keep up at this RPM/HP level, it is "possible" to see these HP gains.

If trying to use a the stock S/C air inlet, F body MAF, factory elbow, un ported intake, 1 3/4 LT's, ORY and cat back exhaust, you will NEVER see this kinda gain at high RPM due to each and every one of these things being the restriction. If the heads are less than 2.200" at the pushrod pinch and less than a 2.08 intake valve, it will never show these gains with the larger cam at high RPM, even if you do have everything else that is free flowing.

SO, in order to see the gains at high RPM you will need a custom air inlet, duct work, MAF and elbow that allows ZERO difference in boost when checked at these points compared to boost in the intake.

You will need a 58 MM TB, fully ported intake, 2.08 intake valves, FULLY ported AFR 210's opened up to 2.200-2.400" at push rod pinch (if starting with an LT4 intake we can actually get 2.400" here), a set of 1 7/8 LT headers, 3" True Duals with X pipe, Bullet mufflers and dumps at rear end.

THIS set up would actually be able to see the 20/35 35 HP gains at 6500/7000 RPM over the small cam BUT the smaller cam will still make the same HP at 5500 RPM, 20 more HP at 4500 RPM and 40 more HP at 3000 RPM.

If you do not have all the parts mentioned to see the the gains at high RPM, there will be very little to no gains up there with the larger cam and so you might as well take advantage of the extra HP/TQ thru the entire RPM range of the smaller cam.

Lloyd Elliott
972-617-5671
Elliottsportworks.com


Wow, Ok, a little less charlie brown....

[popo8]

So you guys think maybe LE would be the better choice to talk to re this custom grind cam, rather than COMP????

[CamaroZGuy]

me personally, i would talk to LE. though i am in no way doubting Sean. but also i do not no the full specs of your motor. you could be running what its necessary, but i am more going for a street car and want as much usful power power in the low end as i can get....

(sorry for ant miss spelllings, i just got hhome from the UFC fight.....)

also Popo i am glad that it made a little more seance to you... Loyd is a great person to talk to.

[popo8]

me personally, i would talk to LE. though i am in no way doubting Sean. but also i do not no the full specs of your motor. you could be running what its necessary, but i am more going for a street car and want as much usful power power in the low end as i can get....

(sorry for ant miss spelllings, i just got hhome from the UFC fight.....)

also Popo i am glad that it made a little more seance to you... Loyd is a great person to talk to.

Thank you again. I just tried sending an email to him and the email attached is not coming back as valid.

[CamaroZGuy]

PM sent man!

[popo8]

PM sent man!

Thank you bro!

[popo8]

Ok, been emailing with Lloyd....

Here is what he is suggesting:



"What will the compression ratio be with the AFR heads?

The chambers are available many sizes and just compare to the LT1 chambers you have now so you know what kind of compression ratio you have.

I would use a 224/236 .560/.571 114 LSA cam as long as we are under 9.7 to 1.

I would use a 230/242 .598/.576 114 LSa cam if we have 10.0 to 1 compression. This cam will make about 30 less RWTQ in mid range and the same power at 6500 RPM as the 224/2326 cam listed above. It will be 15 HP better by 7000 RPM.

224/236 is usually the better cam unless we have too much compression. "


I informed him Currently I have what my builder had figured to be 10:1, however I am not sure what cc the stock heads are. I do believe the new ones are 65cc though.


So he asked me:

"I would find out what piston is used (-16, -22 or -30 CC) and what the deck ht is.

I can figure the compression ratio off of that so we know what we have.

Stock LT1 chamber size is 54.5 cc but a lot of books have it listed at 58 cc.

"IF" he based 10.1 compression on 58 cc chambers, we will drop to 9.2 to 1 with 65 cc chambers. "IF'' based on 54.5 cc chambers, we will have 8.7 to 1 with the 65 cc chambers.

Once we know the compression, I will know a lot more about how much duration we need."


I called the place we got the rotating assembly from and found that the pistons are "reverse dish -22.4cc" IDK what that means.... so i emailed Lloyd, and am awaiting his suggestions...


If anyone has a clue about all the stuff I wrote above, feel free to dumb it down for me. One other note, Lloyd has been fantastic to work with!

[Fastbird]

Replying so I can tackle this from home on the computer.

Posting from my Rezound....enjoying the beats.

[popo8]

Replying so I can tackle this from home on the computer.

Posting from my Rezound....enjoying the beats.

Thank you Sean. I look forward to it....

[popo8]

Lloyd's latest response:

"If using a .040" thick head gasket and zero decked block, you will have 9.20 to 1 compression with the 65 cc chambers.

The 224/236 .560/.571 114 LSA cam will work great."

[Fastbird]

I'd go with that. Take everything out of the equation, which it looks like Lloyd did by just basing it off of factoring in the -22cc Dished pistons, a very probable Zero deck height, and using your 65cc chambers on the AFR's. I think Lloyd probably has it pinned. I think you'll like it. It won't be ultra gnarly, but it'll make boost quick, make good power, and have crazy driveability.

[popo8]

I'd go with that. Take everything out of the equation, which it looks like Lloyd did by just basing it off of factoring in the -22cc Dished pistons, a very probable Zero deck height, and using your 65cc chambers on the AFR's. I think Lloyd probably has it pinned. I think you'll like it. It won't be ultra gnarly, but it'll make boost quick, make good power, and have crazy driveability.

Cool, I know you know your Shyt Sean... I just get confused, because some say those heads like 600+ lift.... yet here we are under that....

[Fastbird]

It's not that they don't work under .600 lift, its just that they're really not any better than other offerings at that level. Above .600 is where they out do the competition and you see the realized gains. That's why you don't see any mild builds running that type of head imo. The good news is that they're leaving you room to grow if you start changing things up.

Posting from my Rezound....enjoying the beats.

[popo8]

It's not that they don't work under .600 lift, its just that they're really not any better than other offerings at that level. Above .600 is where they out do the competition and you see the realized gains. That's why you don't see any mild builds running that type of head imo. The good news is that they're leaving you room to grow if you start changing things up.

Posting from my Rezound....enjoying the beats.

But is it worth pushing for a cam with more lift, being thats the case?

[popo8]

I know most of you are not following this thread , or at least not commenting... but I could use some decision making help.

I was talking to Lloyd about springs, rockers, lifters etc, and here is what he said:

"shaft rockers are not required but are nice.

For a hyd roller set up, 7/16 studs and Comp ultra pro mag rockers will be fine.

A set of GM LS7 lifters will handle the abuse and are only $125 or so thru Summit."

Now, my question is....

AFR recomends Shaft mounted rockers for street use...... because of larger offset valves....excessive wear on push rods and rockers. WHAT SHOULD I DO?

And as for lifters, are the LS7 lifters that Lloyd is suggesting superior to others? Im still learning this TOP END stuff....


And this was his spring advice:

"

We will need 155 lbs on the seat and 360 lbs or more open.

Let me know the installed ht on your AFR springs and we can probably use a Comp 977-16 springs on there with your existing retainers. These will set up at 1.850-1.840" and work great. $128.99 plus shipping in Summit. I can sell these to you for $125 shipped.

We just need to make sure they will have the correct set up ht to work with the heads and retainers you currently have.

Get me the measurements of the steps in the retainers and I'll make sure they will slide into these springs. "

No real question there, just sharing.




Any other advice would be helpful. Thank you....

[joelster]

The AFR heads typically run a 1.550" diameter spring with an install height of 1.950". Go to summitracing.com and type in "valve springs", then in the menus just click on the different parameters. You will get a bunch of springs with those width and heights. Search for the spring pressures you need. Go with the shaft rockers, they are bulletproof. They will run you $1100. A set of offset stud rockers will run you $300 and then a girdle will run you $200. They still won't be as good. You CAN run regular rockers if you want to but the intake rockers will be cocked slightly and WILL loosen up over time. No big deal if you have the valve covers off every weekend, but that can be a chore.

[CamaroZGuy]

its sounding like you are having almost the exact same conversations with Lloyd as i have. i would love to give more info but im at about the same spot. i have decided that i am just going to set some thing up with Lloyd and drive the 2 hours down to his place after i get the final specs of what my block will be and we can knock out the topend details.

[popo8]

The AFR heads typically run a 1.550" diameter spring with an install height of 1.950". Go to summitracing.com and type in "valve springs", then in the menus just click on the different parameters. You will get a bunch of springs with those width and heights. Search for the spring pressures you need. Go with the shaft rockers, they are bulletproof. They will run you $1100. A set of offset stud rockers will run you $300 and then a girdle will run you $200. They still won't be as good. You CAN run regular rockers if you want to but the intake rockers will be cocked slightly and WILL loosen up over time. No big deal if you have the valve covers off every weekend, but that can be a chore.

I think Its the right thing to do for longevity and lazy sake to just get the shaft mounts, like you said....Even if it costs alot more....

[MidwestTA]

Do it right and spend the money the first time, so you dont have to re-do and repair from things going BOOM

[popo8]

Heads dropped off. Thank You AMS in Pottstown PA. They will be setting them up for proper spring pressure and height as per L.E. Shaft mounted rockers 1.6/1.6 will also be ordered through them. Need to locate some LS7 lifters and this week Money being sent to L.E for the cam (The 224/236 .560/.571 114 LSA ), Thank You Lloyd!

And thankyou to all of you that have helped me understand (the little that I do) all this top end Chinese....

[CamaroZGuy]

awesome! cant wait to see how that cam performs and sounds!

[F.G.]

congrats man

[popo8]

Heads are done and ready for my pick up....

Shaft mounted rockers sitting next to my heads, waiting for pick up....

Waiting on L.E. for my cam.....

Valve covers ordered and enroute (not sure they will fit, but worth a try...)

831883198320

[BLK95-Z]

I bet your so pumped. I would be for a top end like that! Congrats

[popo8]

I really am man... THANK YOU!!!!

[popo8]

Well..........


Today is the day the car gets towed to the garage.... I dont know how soon work will begin, however, here is the plan....

-tow car

-pull computer and send to MOE HORSEPOWER for approximate tune for new set up....

-pull the motor, and transport it to the "clean room" at the race shop.

-disassemble (make sure valve caused no damage to piston) and wait for cam.

-preassemble, and confirm pistons will not need to be fly cut and measure for push rods.

-If fly cutting, or piston replacement is necessary, obviously handle that.

-Once everything is prepped, get it back together, and in the car.

-repaint motor compartment.

-wire in shift light.

-set up triple pod with guages.

-locate a decent AF guage and plumb it.

-replace window motor on drivers side.

[CamaroZGuy]

awesome man! must see pics along the way!

[popo8]

You know me, Ill hammer the pics!

[popo8]

No work getting done tonight, but she is being transported!!!!

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/te1.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/te2.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/te3.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/te4.jpg

[carboncamaro]

Following your progress man. You're gonna be tickled when it's all said and done!

[popo8]

Following your progress man. You're gonna be tickled when it's all said and done!

Man I sure hope so.... My luck, My life..... nothing is easy. It WILL be a struggle....

[carboncamaro]

Man I sure hope so.... My luck, My life..... nothing is easy. It WILL be a struggle....

Hey it might be but in the end it'll be right cuz you won't settle for any less! I'm about to start a LE2 top end swap myself for the first time.....

[popo8]

Hey it might be but in the end it'll be right cuz you won't settle for any less! I'm about to start a LE2 top end swap myself for the first time.....

Goodluck man!!!

[popo8]

Ok, well its in the garage.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/a.jpg

And I want to throw a big thanks to my pit crew. Cody (LT1Leadfoot) and Tyler (shakerta or something like that) of Denny's Corvette Restorations for coming over and starting the tear down project.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/b.jpg

All fluids drained....

Intercooler and piping removed...

Exhaust pulled....

Sway bar unbolted.....

So we are well on our way........

[CamaroZGuy]

i almost want to buy and send you a real camera! LOL

[popo8]

Lol, mine was fogged up from being out in the cold, then inside the heated garage....

Its not bad for a phone when the lense is clean... But if you wanna buy me stuff.... lol

[carboncamaro]

How's the build going???

[BLK95-Z]

Im ready to see what you find when you break it down. How many miles on that motor?

[popo8]

How's the build going???


slow... still struggling though BlueBottleZ's build and first start up....

[popo8]

TRANSMISSION is OUT (yesterday)

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-1.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1.jpg

And the infamous BOX OF PARTS... intercooler, hoses, piping, etc.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3.jpg

Everything has been taken apart (that needs to be). Now to drop the motor.



BIG THANKS to BlueBottleZ (Chris) LeadfootLt1 (Cody) and ShakerTA (Tyler), for all their help, since I am useless.....

[popo8]

Even though I was feeling like ass today, and did not leave the house, Chris (BLUEBOTTLEZ) sent me a pic, that he dropped the motor!


WOOHOOOOO!!!!!

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/a-1.jpg

[popo8]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/b-1.jpg

[MoeHorsePower]

[QUOTE=popo8;207540]So the plan.... GO BIG, or GO HOME.....

I was pointed in the directions of these:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1450840-brand-new-lt4-afr-227-heads-1126-a.html

I wished I would of seen this earlier, Those heads are trash and are a bad choice, But being the nice guy I am, I will take them off your hands .

[popo8]

[QUOTE=popo8;207540]So the plan.... GO BIG, or GO HOME.....

I was pointed in the directions of these:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1450840-brand-new-lt4-afr-227-heads-1126-a.html

I wished I would of seen this earlier, Those heads are trash and are a bad choice, But being the nice guy I am, I will take them off your hands .

Lol, with that being said. I was worried, but then I read all the way through.... and Im assuming you approve????

[CamaroZGuy]

At this pace you will deff. Be done before me. Can't wait to see the differance between 2cubes and slightly larger heads...as I have said though, I hope after these two white camaros are done people will respect the P1 a little more :D

[popo8]

At this pace you will deff. Be done before me. Can't wait to see the differance between 2cubes and slightly larger heads...as I have said though, I hope after these two white camaros are done people will respect the P1 a little more :D

Oh.... they will.

[MoeHorsePower]

[QUOTE=MoeHorsePower;215868]

Lol, with that being said. I was worried, but then I read all the way through.... and Im assuming you approve????

Nice...

[popo8]

Stripped down and ready for dis-assembly this weekend.


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/stripped.jpg

[joelster]

Those heads with 383 cubes a big cam and a blower is going to wreak havoc on your drivetrain, lol. I'd say your t56 is going to not like having to deal with 800hp. When it pops you can swap an auto in there and come and race at the SHOOTOUT!!!!

POPO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[popo8]

Those heads with 383 cubes a big cam and a blower is going to wreak havoc on your drivetrain, lol. I'd say your t56 is going to not like having to deal with 800hp. When it pops you can swap an auto in there and come and race at the SHOOTOUT!!!!

POPO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I love the way you think... I would honestly like to think that the $1000 worth of upgrades I sank into the tranny last year will help. I believe my ds and maybe the clutch will be my weak points once this is done and tuned.....


JOELSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BLK95-Z]

Your tires are gonna be the weak point with all that power :devil:

[popo8]

Your tires are gonna be the weak point with all that power :devil:

THat my friend.... is what Im aiming for.... lol.



Honestly, I dont know if I will even buy sticky tires for it.....

[BLK95-Z]

Honestly, I dont know if I will even buy sticky tires for it.....

Yes I agree. Sticky tires will probably just start breaking shit.

If its just a cruiser let er spin....

[popo8]

Old heads and intake removed.... old cam pulled out.

Im assuming there was no damage to the piston from the valve, since it was not mentioned. But I will know more 2moro.


As long as thats good... preliminary assembly this week to check valve/piston clearance and pushrod length... then BACK TOGETHER!!!!

[popo8]

As stated, the top end is disassembled.....

ROCKERS AND LIFTERS, REMOVED
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/Friends/q.jpg

INTAKE, OFF
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/Friends/e.jpg

OLD CAM, OUT
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/Friends/w.jpg

HEADS, OFF
(and on a side not, good news..... no bent valves, looks like the spring broke and that was IT)
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/Friends/a-1.jpg

[popo8]

Did a little ,scuffing and painting as well. Rather than the flat (chalky) black that was once on there, here is a little gunmetal.

Water Pump BEFORE:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/wpb4.jpg

Water Pump AFTER:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/wpaftr.jpg

Procharger Before:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/pcb4.jpg

Procharger After:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/pcaftr.jpg

[chris]

I chased down issues for almost a whole summer for a broken spring before. Dampner inside a dual spring broke holding the valve open

[popo8]

Well we didnt have to chase it to far. Quick find.

[popo8]

ALL of the parts dropped off at my Engine Builders place....

The only thing he has to order are the head gaskets. Whatever kind he choses.......

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

[popo8]

WELL.... tonight I got the word (while at a friends bday party) that my engine, is DONE.

Just fighting the blue rubber gaskets onto the Canton VCs.... and we bring it back over to the garage.....

Got a modified LS1 steering shaft to instal, then back in with the ENGINE!!!!!!

[biggriff]

sweeeettttt.....

[Fastbird]

Good stuff Larry. Now man up and say you're going to race it at the shootout. ;)

[JCZNova]

It should be bullet-proof now!

[popo8]

Good stuff Larry. Now man up and say you're going to race it at the shootout. ;)


lol.......


It should be bullet-proof now!

I sure hope so....




Ok, so the motor is back at the garage... and almost all together.... the blue rubber gaskets, just would not stretch far enough, so I need to get some of the cork gaskets with the metal in them.....

Had to clearance the one valve cover where the notch for the alternator is for the shaft mounted rocker set up....... I hate messing with stuff, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Also, we are not sure when we put the accessories back on if the alternator bracket will clear the new larger valve covers........ so may have to modify the bracket.


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/lt1-2.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/lt1.jpg


Sooooooooooooooooo, what do you all think????

[BLK95-Z]

Thats f^cking tits man. Nice...

[popo8]

Thats f^cking tits man. Nice...

Thank You TINCH!

[joelster]

You could have gotten the speed inc low mount alternator kit that keeps power steering. It's pricey though.

[popo8]

Good stuff Larry. Now man up and say you're going to race it at the shootout. ;)


You could have gotten the speed inc low mount alternator kit that keeps power steering. It's pricey though.

Oh.... I thought the alt relocation made me get rid of AC?

Thats why I didnt look into it any further.

[F.G.]

That looks great man. I really like the gunmetal color on the supercharger and WP.

[popo8]

Good stuff Larry. Now man up and say you're going to race it at the shootout. ;)


That looks great man. I really like the gunmetal color on the supercharger and WP.

Thanks man.... I also did the BBK TB, and the accessory bracket. Ill prob do the intercooler also....

[CamaroZGuy]

looks awesome!

[popo8]

looks awesome!


Thanks Man!!!

[wysemunky]

with my cantons I had to boil the stupid blue rubber gaskets for like an hour and then took blue silicone and clamped them in place and let them set. what a pain but so far so good and no leaks. Good luck with the build! This thing should haul the mail! I am curious at how close you are at maxing out that supercharger tho.

[popo8]

with my cantons I had to boil the stupid blue rubber gaskets for like an hour and then took blue silicone and clamped them in place and let them set. what a pain but so far so good and no leaks. Good luck with the build! This thing should haul the mail! I am curious at how close you are at maxing out that supercharger tho.

Well Procharger still makes smaller pullies, so Im not there YET

[popo8]

MAKIN SOME PROGRESS!!!!


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-2.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-5.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-3.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/4-1.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/5.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/6.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/7.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/8.jpg

[Tarheel'Z']

Looking nice homie!

[popo8]

Looking nice homie!


Thanks Bro!

[v7guy]

I'd say this shit is gay but I'd be lying.
I don't post a lot, but I lurk. I've been following this since October. Glad you keep it updated.

[CamaroZGuy]

Well Procharger still makes smaller pullies, so Im not there YET


i would make sure to figure out what the p1 will be spinning at. with the stock size crank pully a 3.55" S/C and spinning to 6200prm if i remember right it comes out to about 61,000rpm on the p1 and its max is 62,000rpm.

CRANK PULLEY SIZE/TEETH ( ÷ ) BLOWER PULLEY SIZE/TEETH ( × ) GEAR RATIO ( × ) ENGINE RPM REDLINE = IMPELLER RPM

[popo8]

i would make sure to figure out what the p1 will be spinning at. with the stock size crank pully a 3.55" S/C and spinning to 6200prm if i remember right it comes out to about 61,000rpm on the p1 and its max is 62,000rpm.

CRANK PULLEY SIZE/TEETH ( ÷ ) BLOWER PULLEY SIZE/TEETH ( × ) GEAR RATIO ( × ) ENGINE RPM REDLINE = IMPELLER RPM

According to the Procharger chart..... its 65,000 rpm (not that makes a big difference....)

Also, I see the specs are ALMOST identical to the D1SC....


Why does it say the P1SC can make up to 32 lbs of boost???? I dont get it, thats alot?

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/chargerSpecs.gif

[popo8]

That came out SMALL...

Check this chart out... scroll down on this ebay page.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Procharger-D-1SC-Supercharger-Headunit-Satin-NEW-/190569823273?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2c5ed8bc29

[CamaroZGuy]

looks like you got the P1sc-1, i just got a P1sc. and the biggest difference is the CFM P1 is 1200, the D1 is 1200. and as for the 32# max i would think that on a small motor, the better flow you have boost will drop.

[popo8]

looks like you got the P1sc-1, i just got a P1sc. and the biggest difference is the CFM P1 is 1200, the D1 is 1200. and as for the 32# max i would think that on a small motor, the better flow you have boost will drop.


Thank You man.... I was assuming that was the case with the boost number, but I was not sure.... Honestly, I need to look, I dont know if I have a P1SC or P1SC-1...... I will have to check the tag....I guess thats where it would say....

[zraffz]

How do you like those valve covers?! I was looking to get a set of them.

[popo8]

How do you like those valve covers?! I was looking to get a set of them.


I love the look, however they are creating some modification work... gaskets, brackets, and wires all need modifying because of their height.

[popo8]

New LS1 steering shaft modified and added....

Fuel rails placed......

Wires, fed through, and cut to length......

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996 Procharged 385 Lt1 Camaro/wires.jpg


GETTING CLOSE!!!!!

[Fastbird]

Looks good Larry! I didn't realize how big those valve covers actually are, but that shot makes them look huge!

Posted from my Rezound

[popo8]

Looks good Larry! I didn't realize how big those valve covers actually are, but that shot makes them look huge!

Posted from my Rezound


And remember thats an LT4 Air gap intake..... and those VC's are overshadowing it...

THanks Sean!!!

[BApower]

I like your motor build man! i hope to make it to ltx shootout and see it run

[popo8]

I like your motor build man! i hope to make it to ltx shootout and see it run

Thanks man... but the most running you will probably see is to and from the track and maybe a trip to White Castle... lol

[popo8]

So, just for the hell of it, I decided to confirm that my TB was a 58mm 2night... a quick measurement revealed... its not... its only a 52....

Guess I gotta find me a 58mm one now...... Hmmmm, maybe time for a single blade....????

[1badz]

So, just for the hell of it, I decided to confirm that my TB was a 58mm 2night... a quick measurement revealed... its not... its only a 52....

Guess I gotta find me a 58mm one now...... Hmmmm, maybe time for a single blade....????

The opening of the intake manifold (as you may know) has to be cut open for a mono-blade throttle body. That would be ssssiiiiiiiick though. I would imagine a build like yours would more than likely benefit from a throttle body larger than a twin 52mm. Loving the thread/updates so far. Keep up the good work man!

[popo8]

The opening of the intake manifold (as you may know) has to be cut open for a mono-blade throttle body. That would be ssssiiiiiiiick though. I would imagine a build like yours would more than likely benefit from a throttle body larger than a twin 52mm. Loving the thread/updates so far. Keep up the good work man!


Thanks man... I think I could do the cut, fairly clean for the monoblade without taking everything apart.... I just dont know if a Monoblade will be worth it... or if I should just pick up a fresh 58 and call it a day....

[1badz]

I would imagine a twin 58mm would be pretty good for you. A lot less work than pulling off the intake, chopping it up, etc. to get the mono blade on :P I am all for simplicity and effectiveness.

[popo8]

Well, looks like Im gonna take the JUMP.

Just gotta call them and find out why it only says its for 1993 Fbody in the title....

http://www.azspeed-marine.com/19ltfcoairin.html

[CamaroZGuy]

Well, looks like Im gonna take the JUMP.

Just gotta call them and find out why it only says its for 1993 Fbody in the title....

http://www.azspeed-marine.com/19ltfcoairin.html

93's used a different cable set up (the TV cable). but most TB's i have seen have come with the linkage for both stiles.

[popo8]

93's used a different cable set up (the TV cable). but most TB's i have seen have come with the linkage for both stiles.


Well the current BBK Im using, came from a 93, and we just switched the lower part over between the one from the 93 to the 96. Im assuming it shouldnt be a problem...... Thanks Bro....

I tried ordering it now with a 1 or 2 day AIR shipping, however it wont let me, will only let me pick ground.... blah!

[FormulaJoe]

TPiS makes really nice TBs. I just got a twin 58mm from them for my build. They sell a monoblade too. $400, it's cheaper, just as nice of quality, and you can reuse that snazzy LTX TB plate I saw on it:D. Whereas it looks like ASM has a different bolt pattern.. Just throwing that out there for you to consider.

Regardless, you sure put together one hell of a top end!! Can't wait to see it at the Shootout and meet you as well!

[popo8]

TPiS makes really nice TBs. I just got a twin 58mm from them for my build. They sell a monoblade too. $400, it's cheaper, just as nice of quality, and you can reuse that snazzy LTX TB plate I saw on it:D. Whereas it looks like ASM has a different bolt pattern.. Just throwing that out there for you to consider.

Regardless, you sure put together one hell of a top end!! Can't wait to see it at the Shootout and meet you as well!


Thanks man, I did notice the different bolt pattern, I will have to look at TPIS..... Is theirs also that one chunk of billet like ASM's?

Looking forward to meeting you 2 man....

[popo8]

TPiS makes really nice TBs. I just got a twin 58mm from them for my build. They sell a monoblade too. $400, it's cheaper, just as nice of quality, and you can reuse that snazzy LTX TB plate I saw on it:D. Whereas it looks like ASM has a different bolt pattern.. Just throwing that out there for you to consider.

Regardless, you sure put together one hell of a top end!! Can't wait to see it at the Shootout and meet you as well!


THis is what I found through TPIS.... looks like it flows just a little less than the other one.... and is 25 bucks more....

Is this the one you were referring to?

[popo8]

Its on its way!!!!!8535

[FormulaJoe]

http://tpis.com/parts/view/46

This is what I was looking at for you. Didn't realize the monoblade was more expensive. By $75! They are made of one chunk. And have a sealed ball bearing design for the shaft.

You'll be happy with the ASM. Either products are fantastically made.

[popo8]

http://tpis.com/parts/view/46

This is what I was looking at for you. Didn't realize the monoblade was more expensive. By $75! They are made of one chunk. And have a sealed ball bearing design for the shaft.

You'll be happy with the ASM. Either products are fantastically made.

Thanks Man... the TPIS piece is nice.... but for more money and less flow... I went with the other... although I will miss my TB plate.

Im thinking maybe I may try to modify the plate with some new holes.... and I may cut off the heads of the current screws and glue them into the unused holes..... lol

We will see....

[FormulaJoe]

Haha that could work. Another main reason I went with TPiS is because they are only a 20 minute drive from me. Which I love.

How long you thinking until your up and running??

[popo8]

Haha that could work. Another main reason I went with TPiS is because they are only a 20 minute drive from me. Which I love.

How long you thinking until your up and running??


Hoping by the end of Feb....

[popo8]

LIKE A PIECE OF ART...


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1-1.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/2.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/3-1.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/4.jpg

[JPack]

Nice fuggin doorstop.

They make a nice piece huh? just a little bit better than a bbk..... Like a little time and effort went into it.

[popo8]

Nice fuggin doorstop.

They make a nice piece huh? just a little bit better than a bbk..... Like a little time and effort went into it.

Man its beautiful.... I hate to hide it....


Now just to figure out what to do with that IAC hole...... since these TBs do not accomodate it with that back side hole...

[Project96]

Very nice piece, but does the intake have to come back off? I would be worried about metal shavings falling into that fresh top end.

[popo8]

Very nice piece, but does the intake have to come back off? I would be worried about metal shavings falling into that fresh top end.

Yes, we will be pulling it back off...... not a big deal.

[popo8]

So once I cut and clean the intake.... I need to plug the inside IAC hole, then figure out what to do with this...


THAT OTHER SITE, had some pics.... so Ill see what we can figure out.

856285638564

[JPack]

Drill and tap. On the other site look at the pics of the different intakes including the edelbrock. You will see what yours looks like with the threaded hole in the intake.

[popo8]

Drill and tap. On the other site look at the pics of the different intakes including the edelbrock. You will see what yours looks like with the threaded hole in the intake.

I know which hole on the intake I will use, in fact we just plugged it the other day. My questions are:

where is that attaching to the TB.... did they drill and tap into the bottom of the TB.

and there is one hole in front of the blade and one behind on the TB, do I need to close the rear one off???

[JPack]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/930903-possible-new-intake-manifold-ltx.html

The idle air comes in front of the tb. You block off behind the tb. The bottom of your new tb has the voting plate to which the idle air control valve flows through. If you remove the bottom plate of the tb, you will see how the air runs. Have the biting plate drilled and tapped, then plumb it to the intake like the pics you posted. You can see where he did it in the pic of the bottom of the tb.

[popo8]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/930903-possible-new-intake-manifold-ltx.html

The idle air comes in front of the tb. You block off behind the tb. The bottom of your new tb has the voting plate to which the idle air control valve flows through. If you remove the bottom plate of the tb, you will see how the air runs. Have the biting plate drilled and tapped, then plumb it to the intake like the pics you posted. You can see where he did it in the pic of the bottom of the tb.

Ok, I know I block off the section of the Intake where I am going to grind the little hole away, but if you look at my new TB, there is a hole in the TB before the Blade, and one behind it... On the other site, I saw one person said they closed the second hole, on the TB, to make the mod work better.... should I do that?

Ok, so if I do that then the air hits the new rig job, plus still flows where it used to, to that thingy on the side???

[JPack]

In the third pic you loaded from ls1 tech, that is the bottom of the throttle body. To the left in that pic is where the idle air valve attaches to the tb.

Now, the air coming into the tb before the blades is where the air enters. The valve on the side opens to let idle air in and then through the passage under the tb, and out into the back hole and travel into the old intake hole you will cut out.

If you block only the back hole, and modify the bottom plate as shown in your third pic from ls1 tech, the idle air to the intake exits out the new area. You then plumb that to the intake in the new location.

All you are doing is modifing the exit of idle air to another location, blocking the new tb current exit.

Hope that makes sense.

[popo8]

In the third pic you loaded from ls1 tech, that is the bottom of the throttle body. To the left in that pic is where the idle air valve attaches to the tb.

Now, the air coming into the tb before the blades is where the air enters. The valve on the side opens to let idle air in and then through the passage under the tb, and out into the back hole and travel into the old intake hole you will cut out.

If you block only the back hole, and modify the bottom plate as shown in your third pic from ls1 tech, the idle air to the intake exits out the new area. You then plumb that to the intake in the new location.

All you are doing is modifing the exit of idle air to another location, blocking the new tb current exit.

Hope that makes sense.

It does, I just get noid when f'n with expensive parts.... so to make it short...

STEP 1- cut out intake to incorporate Monoblade.

STEP 2- fill in little hole that got butchered when doing step one.

STEP 3- drill and tap in proper space of underside of tb

STEP 4- route fittings and little hose like in LSX pictures to route into hole under TB.

STEP 5- fill in TB hole behind blade (but that is still in the TB's "tunnel?")

STEP 6- Install

Is that all right... its just the step 5 that concerns me caus Im not sure, and the step 3, because I havnt taken the bottom off to look at it yet.

[Project96]

Ok, at first I thought you were going to cut the intake while it was still mounted...I know silly me right??? That's why I asked it you were going to take it off. I get in the pics where the IAC goes on the new TB, & i seen on the red intake where the old circuit is at the bottom of the mono hole. I guess my question is why would you want to block off the exit passage for the new TB? Are there 2 exits the the metered air on the new TB? If there is not 2 exits, why block the exit off? Wouldn't the gasket cover where the old passage on the intake went? Maybe I'm reading this wrong...or just up past my bed time...

[Project96]

Maybe I need to see where & how the air flows through the bottom...

[popo8]

Ok, at first I thought you were going to cut the intake while it was still mounted...I know silly me right??? That's why I asked it you were going to take it off. I get in the pics where the IAC goes on the new TB, & i seen on the red intake where the old circuit is at the bottom of the mono hole. I guess my question is why would you want to block off the exit passage for the new TB? Are there 2 exits the the metered air on the new TB? If there is not 2 exits, why block the exit off? Wouldn't the gasket cover where the old passage on the intake went? Maybe I'm reading this wrong...or just up past my bed time...

IDK, thats why Im asking...

My assumption was that the 2nd hole (the one on the other side of the TB blade) would be closed so that when air goes in the front hole, and down through the new routing, its not having to split the trip and head right back out on the other side of the blade.... IDK>.....


8565

Ill repost a pic of the TB showing both holes with the blade cracked open....

[FormulaJoe]

My assumption was that the 2nd hole (the one on the other side of the TB blade) would be closed so that when air goes in the front hole, and down through the new routing, its not having to split the trip and head right back out on the other side of the blade.... IDK>....

You assumed correctly, project96 is confusing me, but I only skimmed through the last page.. So I'm probably missing some stuff

[Project96]

This is confusing me as well. I understand about only wanting one exit for the metered air past the IAC, whether on the other sode of the blade or through another exit. But why divert the air to another location? Is there something on the intake that just does not match up with the TB? I'm just trying to understand what this mod is & how it works is all. If the new TB isn't broke then why fix it? Sorry if I'm confusing. :confused:

[JPack]

The stock location of the iac circuit comes in at the little hole between the blades on the intake manifold. The monoblade dumps it in the plenum of the intake. The iac circuit for stock intake, stock tb, routes the air in machined ducts in the intake and dumps into each runner VIA a small hole that drops into each cylinder. This feeds idle air to each cylinder allowing ease of tuning for idle. Dumping the air in the plenum just dumps it into the front two cylinders or where ever it decides to go. This produces a rough idle and split blms that the computer can't correct. Same thing happens on poorly designed twin blade aftermarket tb's or when people crack the blades open by he screw or by drilling holes in the blades. A monoblade by design can't put that air into the idle air port on then intake so it has no choice but to dump it. The way around it is to block off the hole behind the blade where it would just dump in and reroute to the front port under where the tb sits on the intake. Later stock intakes used that area for the pcv valve piping. Early intakes had a plug inbit and the pcv routed off a port on the side next to the pcv valve.

Larry, you have the option to do it the modded way, or since you are forced induction I will assume your old set up had the blades cracked to begin with for ease of tuning a blower. If you decide to just do the cracked blades, and your tuner agrees and can dial the idle in, you will have to slot the tps sensor so that at blades at rest, simulating a closed throttle (even though cracked open) you see .67 volts. This is critical so the pcm is set to know that is zero position and when open all the way it thinks its is at 100% open. With key in and engine off, full open should read 5v. This way the pcm knows when to go into pe mode based on throttle position. If it doesn't know or is set incorectly , your timing tables etc will not go into effect. Having a forced induction car with this style tb is really the ideal set up. It's a lot more forgiving but at the same time a little bit more challenging for the tuner. I believe you use moe and he will know what to do and what he likes to see. Consult him on what he wants you to do since he will be tuning it for you. Each tuner is different.

[Project96]

I completely understand now. :doh:Thanks for clearing that up for me JPack. Just didn't know what the objective was I guess.

[popo8]

LET ME START by saying thank you to JPACK and those that have remained patient with me trying to understand all this... I think I got it....



The stock location of the iac circuit comes in at the little hole between the blades on the intake manifold. The monoblade dumps it in the plenum of the intake. The iac circuit for stock intake, stock tb, routes the air in machined ducts in the intake and dumps into each runner VIA a small hole that drops into each cylinder. This feeds idle air to each cylinder allowing ease of tuning for idle. Dumping the air in the plenum just dumps it into the front two cylinders or where ever it decides to go. This produces a rough idle and split blms that the computer can't correct. Same thing happens on poorly designed twin blade aftermarket tb's or when people crack the blades open by he screw or by drilling holes in the blades. A monoblade by design can't put that air into the idle air port on then intake so it has no choice but to dump it. The way around it is to block off the hole behind the blade where it would just dump in and reroute to the front port under where the tb sits on the intake. Later stock intakes used that area for the pcv valve piping. Early intakes had a plug inbit and the pcv routed off a port on the side next to the pcv valve.

Larry, you have the option to do it the modded way, or since you are forced induction I will assume your old set up had the blades cracked to begin with for ease of tuning a blower. If you decide to just do the cracked blades, and your tuner agrees and can dial the idle in, you will have to slot the tps sensor so that at blades at rest, simulating a closed throttle (even though cracked open) you see .67 volts. This is critical so the pcm is set to know that is zero position and when open all the way it thinks its is at 100% open. With key in and engine off, full open should read 5v. This way the pcm knows when to go into pe mode based on throttle position. If it doesn't know or is set incorectly , your timing tables etc will not go into effect. Having a forced induction car with this style tb is really the ideal set up. It's a lot more forgiving but at the same time a little bit more challenging for the tuner. I believe you use moe and he will know what to do and what he likes to see. Consult him on what he wants you to do since he will be tuning it for you. Each tuner is different.


My old 52mm tb, had the IAC hole so there was no need to crack the TB... it all worked properly..... SO tonight we pulled the intake and the owner of the performance shop is going to cut out the oval for the TB..... If I understood him correctly, I think he may "Weld" the butchered IAC hole closed, allowing air to only come from the hole below the TB (as in the mod pics). Once the Intake is done, we will take the cover off the bottom of the TB, locate the best spot to tap it, and run the AN fittings... and I think maybe an aluminum line to do the routing..... As for the hole in the TB (the one in the tunnel) behind the blades.. we were discussing threading it and putting a pipe fitting in to close it.

If I understand all this correctly... air should be taken in the little hole in front of the blade.... forced down towards the IAC, where we have tapped in, loop around, shoot back into the intake below the TB and pass where the "weld" is on the butchered "little hole" and should send the air strait down the route to all of the runners...


PHEW, I think I get it......

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/intakeremoved.jpg

[JPack]

Larry's got it!!!

[popo8]

Larry's got it!!!


THANK YOU SO MUCH BRO!!!! You get a year pass on FB!!! lol

[popo8]

Well....

-marked and cut the opening according to the gasket.....

-filled the butchered IAC hole with weld....

-only one route into the Idle Air paths, and that is from the new hole under the TB......

I think it came out pretty damn good....


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-6.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-4.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-4.jpg

[JPack]

Looks like a job well done!

[CamaroZGuy]

its going to be a monster!

[Project96]

That thing looks sweet!! How's the TB coming?

[popo8]

Looks like a job well done!

Thank You man......


its going to be a monster!

Thanks twin... lol. Starting to get concerned with the ability to boost with those heads. Talked to ATI, can upgrade P1 to a D1 (difference is in the guts), but we will cross that bridge later...


That thing looks sweet!! How's the TB coming?

Well all the components that required transferred from the old TB, has been transferred. Now just need to thread the rear IA exit on the inside of the TB, and loctite a pipe bolt into it......

Then gotta remove lower cover, and pick best spot to drill and tap.... looking at previous TB mod pics, shows me two different locations that those people had picked to do the mod....

[popo8]

So, after a little delay due to the monoblade TB requiring some modification work to the intake, and pulling the intake to make it happen...... things are going back together......

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-5.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-8.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-7.jpg


Still gotta pick up some AN fittings and some line to do the IAC reroute.... and need to do some tap and thread work to the rear hole in the TB before installing the TB... BUT....

The motor may go back in tonight.....

[popo8]

856285638564

Trying to get all the parts together to do this..... looking for the tubing, without buying a 25' roll of it.

[JCZNova]

Looks pretty sweet man. Love the red.

Battery was dead from from sitting, but heard the Nova swap crank over today! Hopefully this weekend...

[popo8]

Thanks 2 BLUEBOTTLEZ, I have some pictures of more progress, even while Im not at the garage....

It so nice to have a GREAT friend!!!

Here is the plate that needs drilled and tapped under the TB....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/4-4.jpg

And the other side of the same plate....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-9.jpg

And here is the underside of the TB where the plate was removed.....(so much simpler than I thought)

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-6.jpg

Now a hole will get drilled in the one section of the lower cap and THIS, will be threaded in....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/5-2.jpg

SInce the plate is so thin, the inside of the AN fitting will get cut off, and it will actually be "welded" into place, as if it was made as part of that plate....

And BlUEBOTTLE, also threaded and plugged the hole in the TB, behind the blade, for a straight route through the new IAC route....

Look close.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-8.jpg

[popo8]

Thanks 2 BLUEBOTTLEZ, I have some pictures of more progress, even while Im not at the garage....

It so nice to have a GREAT friend!!!

Here is the plate that needs drilled and tapped under the TB....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/4-4.jpg

And the other side of the same plate....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-9.jpg

And here is the underside of the TB where the plate was removed.....(so much simpler than I thought)

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-6.jpg

Now a hole will get drilled in the one section of the lower cap and THIS, will be threaded in....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/5-2.jpg

SInce the plate is so thin, the inside of the AN fitting will get cut off, and it will actually be "welded" into place, as if it was made as part of that plate....

And BlUEBOTTLE, also threaded and plugged the hole in the TB, behind the blade, for a straight route through the new IAC route....

Look close.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-8.jpg

[JasonShort]

Looking great Larry! I've been really impressed with the results of AFR's comp ported heads (210, 227's) over the years. I think you'll see a real increase in power with your new top end!

Jason

[JPack]

Damn race car!

[popo8]

Looking great Larry! I've been really impressed with the results of AFR's comp ported heads (210, 227's) over the years. I think you'll see a real increase in power with your new top end!

Jason


Thanks man.... I really hope so....



Damn race car!


Lol.... STREET car...

[Project96]

That intake looks sinister, gona be a beast. I'm still interested to see the TB job. Keep up the good work.

[JPack]

Are you done yet?

























How about now?

[popo8]

That intake looks sinister, gona be a beast. I'm still interested to see the TB job. Keep up the good work.

Thanks man.... Im trying to post up pics as it goes along...


Are you done yet?

























How about now?


LOL, no, not yet... actually running into a little problem with the AN fitting in the TB, making contact with the one in the new IAC hole in the intake..... keeping the TB from being able to be bolted on by about 1/4 of an inch on the bottom side....

SUNDAY, we will grind away material at the two AN fittings, in hopes of getting that 1/4 inch....

[popo8]

UPDATE:

Some of you may have followed my panic thread today, trying to figure out what I was going to do....

Looks like the owner of the performance shop where I hang, (he is also a machinist with his own business) is going to fab me an aluminum spacer, that is about 3/8 of an inch thick to fix the problem.... then I will figure out the throttle cable later.

For those that missed it, here is the thread/problem.

http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?17967-Step-inside-NEED-HELP!

[popo8]

GUESS WHATS GOING BACK TOGETHER...

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-9.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-7.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-10.jpg

[popo8]

Well after a bad day (beat up, bed rid'n) from AGGRESSIVE PT today, I got some GREAT news in the form of picture texts from BLUEBOTTLEZ....(my friend Chris M.)

He finished up his shop work today, and jumped back on assembly of my car again......

Pics of the new fittings for the IAC mod, since spacer is being fabbed....

Pics of parts going back together... here, you guys look....86698670867186728673

[popo8]

What a GREAT friend!!!86748675

[QC97Z]

^ Looking great PoPo. I remember how excited I was while I was doing my build. I couldn't stand to go to work every day...because I just wanted to stay home and work on my car.
Now I'm back in the same place again! lol...new secret project.
Again....looks kick-ass Larry. You're making me want to put the smaller pulley on my F1 and go back to the dyno...

[CamaroZGuy]

dam! not even a race! your going to be up an running before i even get my block back!

[popo8]

^ Looking great PoPo. I remember how excited I was while I was doing my build. I couldn't stand to go to work every day...because I just wanted to stay home and work on my car.
Now I'm back in the same place again! lol...new secret project.
Again....looks kick-ass Larry. You're making me want to put the smaller pulley on my F1 and go back to the dyno...

Thanks man..... Your F1 destroys my P1.... so I think your good where you are at... give us lil guys a chance. HAHA.

THank You again for the kind words, Im very excited....


dam! not even a race! your going to be up an running before i even get my block back!

Im kinda cheating though..... mine is just a top end build and without BLUEBOTTLEZ, it would all be sitting since Im gimped.

[CamaroZGuy]

ya, i cant even start mocking up till i get my block. and i am also trying to cut some cost since i am planing on buying a house this year. but the car comes before the house :D

[QC97Z]

^ LOL I'm in the same boat. I'm trying to get a house...but I keep building cars!

[popo8]

LOL, glad I did the house thing first... Im full throttle ahead when it comes to the car....


BTW...


SPACER, MADE!!!

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/spacer.jpg

[QC97Z]

^ Nice! I thought you mentioned earlier in this thread that you have a buddy with a machine shop. If you need small parts like that spacer made, let me know. I have access to a CNC laser, and can program anything that can be drawn in CAD. All I need is a profile and a few dimensions drunkenly scribbled on a bar napkin, and I can make it happ'n cap'n!

[popo8]

HAD SOME EYE CANDY JUST TEXTED TO ME....

(just had another back proceedure, so Im stuck at home.....)

But thanks to BlueBottleZ...... and the owner of Knopps Service and Performance (Jim J...)

Well the new spacer requires a 2nd gasket.... BluebottleZ, made me another one....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/a-2.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/b-2.jpg

Looks like one of the new AN fittings required a tiny bit of clearancing with the spacer... but, they fit!

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/c.jpg

And now some pics of it together... keep in mind, the short bolts are holding it on for the sake of pics... and I need to pic up some larger ones....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/e.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/d.jpg

[popo8]

And my favorite pic....

I can see my fortune of sexy parts.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/f.jpg

[QC97Z]

^ Pure sex. Definitely paying the attention to detail and giving all the bling parts that the PoPo Camaro deserves!

[popo8]

^ Pure sex. Definitely paying the attention to detail and giving all the bling parts that the PoPo Camaro deserves!


Thanks man... I can only hope it sounds and runs as good as my investment calls for. lol

[popo8]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-8.jpg


ALMOST there..... lil more plumbing and maybe a fire up 2moro!!!!


maybe.....

[JCZNova]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-8.jpg


ALMOST there..... lil more plumbing and maybe a fire up 2moro!!!!


maybe.....

Looks like you the throttle cable figured out. What did you end up going with?

[popo8]

Looks like you the throttle cable figured out. What did you end up going with?


It had enough slack in it... still has a tiny bit.....

[Fastbird]

good stuff Larry. Good stuff.

[JCZNova]

It had enough slack in it... still has a tiny bit.....

Nice. I was about to throw up the PNs for the 36 & 48" ones, but figured I would ask first. Looking real sharp! Can't wait to see it.

[popo8]

Thank You guys.....

Now, for some more updates...

With the help of CODY (LeadfootLT1), my triple pod is being modified into a molded dual pod, with a mini shift light at the base....

Some pics of his fabrication process.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-9.jpg
Notice how he adopted the 3rd pod for his car......

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-10.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-11.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/4-5.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/5-3.jpg

[JCZNova]

Thank You guys.....

Now, for some more updates...

With the help of CODY (LeadfootLT1), my triple pod is being modified into a molded dual pod, with a mini shift light at the base....

Some pics of his fabrication process.....


Is there anyway to make ur pics bigger? Been meaning to ask throughout the build if they were mostly cell pics.

[popo8]

Large pics are from my phone... smaller pics are when the guys send me pics of my stuff. For some reason, it comes through SMALL from their phones.....

[popo8]

ITS ALIVE!!!!!


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2619134246863&set=vb.1510373340&type=2 &theater



Can you all see this one? (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2619134246863&set=vb.1510373340&type=2&theater)

[The SRZ]

Congrats, I know you are stoked! Now for some numbers and some track times.

[popo8]

Congrats, I know you are stoked! Now for some numbers and some track times.


I really am. That was just some quick idle time... blower belt was off.... rad was not plumbed and block had no coolant in it....

The valve train is a lil noisy, clacking and all...so I think it may need some more idle time, and more oil flow....

[F.G.]

congrats man

[popo8]

congrats man

Thanks man!!!!

[popo8]

Leadfoot doing his MAGIC!!!

Hopefully its not long till my boost guage is back in.... the new WIDEBAND is wired up, so I can start driving it, and monitoring it....



http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/1-10.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/3-12.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/2-11.jpg

[QC97Z]

^ Looking great man! Glad to hear that beast up and running.

[popo8]

^ Looking great man! Glad to hear that beast up and running.


Thanks man, I really wish I was more capable of doing the stuff myself, but I am so restricted on what I am allowed to do...

Im just really glad I have GREAT friends, and lots of favors (LOL).

[popo8]

FUTURE HOME of the Wideband Bung and Sensor....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/wb1.jpg

[popo8]

ALL MOVED IN....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/wb2.jpg

[QC97Z]

Are you using an AEM UEGO? I flippin LOVE mine.

[popo8]

Honestly, Im not sure what kind it is.... Ive been waiting till a friend (who owns a speed shop) got some more in, but couldnt wait any longer. So, LeadfootLT1 on here gave me his, and I will buy him one when its time......

[LeadfootLT1]

It is an AEM uego kit. And Larry They make a sweet boost gauge to match. I think a must in the near future for that beautiful pillar pod

[popo8]

It is an AEM uego kit. And Larry They make a sweet boost gauge to match. I think a must in the near future for that beautiful pillar pod

WIll their boost guage use the same lines and wires run to mine?

[LeadfootLT1]

Not sure but it wouldn't be more than a fee wires to hook up if it's not. I'll research it

[popo8]

Not sure but it wouldn't be more than a fee wires to hook up if it's not. I'll research it

OK cool..... please do, especially if you think its that much better than what I have...

[LeadfootLT1]

I don't think that any (reputable brand)boost gauge is much better than another. It's just that it would match the a/f gauge you will have in the pod. Not a big deal if that's doesn't matter to you haha I'm just weird like that.

[QC97Z]

I have the UEGO and an Autometer Sport Comp mechanical boost gauge. You don't really notice the difference in the styling (at least I didn't anyway).

Agreed Leadfoot, I don't think any reputable branded gauge is any better than the rest. However, I have heard that mechanical has better accuracy than an electric gauge....or was it the other way around? Hell I dunno. I've been at work for 13 hours now and my brain is fried.

[CALL911]

I have the UEGO and an Autometer Sport Comp mechanical boost gauge. You don't really notice the difference in the styling (at least I didn't anyway).

Agreed Leadfoot, I don't think any reputable branded gauge is any better than the rest. However, I have heard that mechanical has better accuracy than an electric gauge....or was it the other way around? Hell I dunno. I've been at work for 13 hours now and my brain is fried.

The electronic fuel gauge is more accurate than the mechanical ones. They also are more expensive. I think the autometer mechanical boost gauges go for like $40. My autometer electronic boost gauge goes for $180.

[popo8]

Good info guys... something for me to consider, because i would like them to match.... but then again, I just want her back on the road (SAFELY) for now.... lol

[popo8]

Well, the vac line for the boost guage needs to be reconnected, so YES, I know its not reading anything...

The new wideband AF guage is awesome..... before I get ripped apart for running lean, please remember this is ideling.... and an open elbow comming off the TB .....

But just a little closer today......

AF guage, idle video.....


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2648909311221&set=vb.1510373340&type=2&theater



And for those that are interested in whats left besides the guages...... Figuring out new piping, fittings and T clamps. here is a pic of the set up with the horizontal intercooler.....


(i know many people say they have never seen anything like that.... notice the scoop that directs air across the surface of the intercooler....)


8800


Ok, so the hole everyone sees to the upper right of the picture is the inlet that loops up and 90s into the blower..... the red with all the clamps into blue (which the blue will be replaced, is where the air goes through the horizontal intercooler, and the hole all the way to the left, is where the air comes out, and will be routed in a 90 upward, and 90 across the front to the TB...

[popo8]

GETTING REAL CLOSE!!!!!

The guys are buttoning up some of the piping today, and 2moro after another back procedure, I will stop at the shop.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/PIPES1.jpg

[CamaroZGuy]

2 days and no updates? whats going on!!!! :D

hows all the piping working out?

[popo8]

Well, she is alive... took her on the maiden voyage tonight........

Did not go into boost at all, but HOLY SHIT its a different animal, just running pre boost.....

Still want to watch the A/F a little, and try a little more fine tuning.....

However when I started rolling into it, I was seeing in the 11s.... and at idle it was lean, bouncing from 15, 16, 17.....

Piping came in handy, with ALOT left over, between what I had.... what I bought from you, and what I purchased in stainless......

2moro, I will clean her up a bit, and show a few pics, and some videos....



8836

[QC97Z]

^ Awesome!

When I start getting into boost, I'm in the 11's....perfectly normal. and at idle, I'll normally bounce around between mid 14's and 17. Perfectly normal as well.
Sounds like you're in pretty good shape. Get that thing on the dyno!

[popo8]

^ Awesome!

When I start getting into boost, I'm in the 11's....perfectly normal. and at idle, I'll normally bounce around between mid 14's and 17. Perfectly normal as well.
Sounds like you're in pretty good shape. Get that thing on the dyno!


Ok thats nice to hear Im right within range..... thank you.


Today will consist of:
-a bath for the car.
-cleaning and emptying the interior of extra parts....
-polishing valve covers (as much as I can reach) and anything else aluminum....
-polishing wheels and shining tires.
-fabricating a new breather for the valve cover... forgot to glue the one I had in, and its GONE.... :(
-Mount the new GLOCK mount in the car, for easy access ;)

[JCZNova]

Ok thats nice to hear Im right within range..... thank you.


Today will consist of:
-a bath for the car.
-cleaning and emptying the interior of extra parts....
-polishing valve covers (as much as I can reach) and anything else aluminum....
-polishing wheels and shining tires.
-fabricating a new breather for the valve cover... forgot to glue the one I had in, and its GONE.... :(
-Mount the new GLOCK mount in the car, for easy access ;)

Sounds like the surgery went well then, if you are up and around chirping gears. If you could hit me with a pic when you get your mount figured out, it would be appreciated. I have a good spot in my Ram, but now the wife DDs that, so I am looking for ideas in the Nova. My center console would mount great on the inside, but it isn't an easy draw for speed with the lid opening front to back.

[popo8]

Sounds like the surgery went well then, if you are up and around chirping gears. If you could hit me with a pic when you get your mount figured out, it would be appreciated. I have a good spot in my Ram, but now the wife DDs that, so I am looking for ideas in the Nova. My center console would mount great on the inside, but it isn't an easy draw for speed with the lid opening front to back.




2 christmass' ago, MissPopo, bought me a FOBUS paddle holster, and a "Universal Home & Vehicle mount...." Its a nice kit when combined with the holster. I comes with 2 different length arms, and two different pivoting mouts, for different types of installation.....

I mounted mine on the front of the rear seat deletes, and mounted the holster upside down for a natural GRAB position if I reach for it......

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996%20Procharged%20385%20Lt1%20Camaro/gun.jpg

[popo8]

AF on the drive home... just a lil clip...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2668855409861&set=vb.1510373340&type=2&theater

[popo8]

Getting her ready to come home....


Driveability is def off..... holding the peddle steady, its clear the car wants to do different things, but let me tell you... I rolled into it, in 3rd and was chasing it enough that I couldn't look at any of the guages....




8863

[popo8]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/popo08/1996 Procharged 385 Lt1 Camaro/HOME.jpg


Its good to have her home and on her feet again. Need to address an oil leak from the Cantons, Tune & paint!!!!



ps- the baby P1SC is still able to BOOST...... thats right Call911. lol

[AChotrod]

Lookin good!!!
FYI My AFR bounces around at idle also.

[popo8]

Lookin good!!!
FYI My AFR bounces around at idle also.

Cool, and thank you. From what Im seeing, the more aggressive cam, will make that happen .

[QC97Z]

Be careful fixing the leak on those cantons. Mine were a nightmare, i got rid of them. I will never buy any canton products again just because of this.

[popo8]

Be careful fixing the leak on those cantons. Mine were a nightmare, i got rid of them. I will never buy any canton products again just because of this.

Ill basically try snugging them some more... not sure what more I can do....

What type of VC's are you running now.....

(Im allready tired of seeing smoke when the oil hits the primaries....

[94ta383]

Larry,
I bought them from a member on this site who assured me that they didn't leak. I had them in the car for a brief time and they didn't leak when I had them. Did you try new gaskets?

[joelster]

popo will have all of the bugs worked out in no time! Now he will be focused on his launch technique for the race at the SHOOTOUT!

Oh yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!